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Post by Stevev on Sept 23, 2005 13:27:19 GMT -5
That is a good point that you brought up Realist. I guess LU's womens basketball program could be in the same boat as CCU and WU. I can't use the BSC as the only excuse for our poor performance on the football field but I feel that it is a major contributing factor in that it puts our football program at a perceived lower level because the conference has poor calibre football teams. Because LU has associated themselves with poor competition by joining the BSC the public and even other colleges perceive LU to be of low calibre or a second rate 1AA football team themselves. More perception than anything. I think that, based on what I heard, the main problem could be Coach Karcher and how he is running the program. Poor decisions seem to be made in all aspects of the program considering the high attrition rate and poor performance. I see the BSC as a major obstacle as anything but those obstacle can be overcome with the right moves.
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Post by Realist on Sept 23, 2005 13:35:39 GMT -5
That is true, Lady Flames have done the same thing. Obviously, if you're in the acc over the big south, your "bad" isn't going to be as bad as the big south, and vice versa. So it is a factor, but who is going to the acc anyway. Another low-mid major conference would be the only move for either program, and neither would really enhance recruiting all that much (in football it may be more of a factor I digress).
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Post by Chris Lang on Sept 23, 2005 15:45:57 GMT -5
There is only one other independent in Division I-AA football: Savannah State.
The Atlantic 10 must play eight conference games, and most A-10 teams will play a I-A in their OOC games. The SoCon, OVC, Patriot and Gateway play seven. If LU was an independent, it would struggle hard to fill a schedule. There would likely be at least three DIIs on the slate because not enough I-AAs have open dates, especially late in the season.
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Post by WinthropEagleFan on Sept 23, 2005 16:50:55 GMT -5
I'm up for anything that betters LU's chances of making the playoffs. Im really not sure why the big south added football when it knew it didn't have enough members to have an auto-qualifier for post season play. This pretty much means that Liberty is still playing as an Independent. Actually, the Big South started football thinking they would soon have six members...they didn't plan on Elon filling VMI's void in the SoCon though, so that 'ruined' the plan.
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Post by GetRealLU on Oct 17, 2005 7:35:20 GMT -5
I'm up for anything that betters LU's chances of making the playoffs. Im really not sure why the big south added football when it knew it didn't have enough members to have an auto-qualifier for post season play. This pretty much means that Liberty is still playing as an Independent. Actually, the Big South started football thinking they would soon have six members...they didn't plan on Elon filling VMI's void in the SoCon though, so that 'ruined' the plan. The point is the Big South planned to fail because they failed to plan. They probably should have had a contingency plan to add several other prospect schools or merge w/ another conference for football. We're in year four of this prestigious football conference and nothing has been done to better the conference. This means that the BSC did no short term planning(or succesfully implemented & carried one out). As for the Long term who knows.
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Post by eddantes on Oct 17, 2005 7:58:27 GMT -5
I wholeheartedly agree. The Big South instituted its football conference knowing that VMI was going to join (and Coastal) and that Elon was going to leave. They also knew that you had to have six teams playing together for at least two years to be considered for an NCAA I-AA playoff berth. But they've done nothing in those four years to ensure it.
I can't believe that they haven't gotten anyone to join in four years, that they can't pick off ONE team from another conference. Ridiculous.
Coastal fans -- if you guys don't get an at-large bid this year, just remember that your case for the selection committee would have been buttressed by winning an eligible conference, but the Big South dragged its feet.
(At last, the Big South isn't screwing just LU anymore).
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 17, 2005 11:24:14 GMT -5
If CCU has their way- they won't be waiting around for team #6 five years from now. Most likely we will be sitting here w/ 3 other teams, still whining.
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Post by eddantes on Oct 17, 2005 14:27:53 GMT -5
If CCU has their way- they won't be waiting around for team #6 five years from now. Most likely we will be sitting here w/ 3 other teams, still whining. Can you blame them?
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Post by PittLU on Oct 19, 2005 13:29:50 GMT -5
Is Liberty's recruiting base in the west? Does any team in the Big South have a recruiting base in the west or vice versa? I think it would be of greater interest of the Great West's part to join the Big South. 60% of the conference has a zero recruiting base. You have to have a large regional if not national scope when you have to pitch the Dakotas or Utah to a recruit.
People are already moaning that we are going to be sacraficial lambs for big paydays. Now you have to ask members on both sides of the merged conference to take the "blood" money to offset travel instead of building program coffers. All of this is in the quest for an automatic playoff bid to benefit one of the members? What does that playoff berth really get you? It gets you what it gets you in the "dance" - a beating at the hands of a higher ranked I-AA power.
There are plenty of up and coming programs in the east and southeast that could be potential Big South members - not to mention building football programs from within. Look at UConn building a football program from the proceeds of the basketball program. Granted Winthrop is not on the scale of UConn, but their needs wouldnt be as great either.
My suggestion - shun the merger talks and bide your time. Conferences are stil shaking out, teams are falling out of Division I and Division I-AA and II are bolstering their programs all of the time. The conference landscape will drastically change in the next 5 years. The Big South is in its infancy (in football) and could play the role of sniper or key acquisition. Take care of the farm first, and let the conference take care of itself.
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 19, 2005 14:00:04 GMT -5
My suggestion - shun the merger talks and bide your time. Conferences are stil shaking out, teams are falling out of Division I and Division I-AA and II are bolstering their programs all of the time. The conference landscape will drastically change in the next 5 years. The Big South is in its infancy (in football) and could play the role of sniper or key acquisition. Take care of the farm first, and let the conference take care of itself. LUpitt you're sounding more like SLY every day! But you're probably both correct: esp w/ the rules on what it takes to be (or not to be, that is the ?) D1A. I'm thinking the BSOUTH could have a couple more teams w/in 4 or 5 yrs. We'll see. The AD's need to start pushing this.
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Post by youcantsaythat on Oct 19, 2005 14:44:35 GMT -5
I would like to see is the Southern expand and take some teams out of the Big South...Coastal, LU, Gardner Webb. I know it won't happen but it makes more sense than a merger with a conference out west. As far as LU is concerned, stop talking publically about going 1-a in the future and playing Notre Dame. It sounds ridiculous when they can't even win the Big South. Dreams are fine, but try setting a goal first.
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 19, 2005 17:56:33 GMT -5
REGISTER
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Post by Sly Fox on Oct 19, 2005 19:14:25 GMT -5
SoCon has no motivation to expand by three football schools (and I don't think want anything to do with G-W).
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Post by bigsmooth on Oct 20, 2005 16:17:00 GMT -5
please name the up and coming programs LUPITT. im still hoping PC joins. they are having a solid year in D2 and are ranked in the top 15.
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 20, 2005 21:51:05 GMT -5
Only vaguely familiar w/ these guys- but SC State has looked pretty good lately. I think the knock on them has always been the lack of OTHER competetive sports teams?
And I think Hampton was the other name thrown around- could be wrong though.
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Post by eddantes on Oct 21, 2005 5:32:45 GMT -5
I would think that Hampton would be more inclined to join the upstart Colonial Athletic Association, which is going to start soon (thanks largely in part to Old Dominion's football program, slated to start in 2009 and slated to be better than us by 2011).
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Post by rokamortis on Oct 21, 2005 12:51:11 GMT -5
I would think that Hampton would be more inclined to join the upstart Colonial Athletic Association, which is going to start soon (thanks largely in part to Old Dominion's football program, slated to start in 2009 and slated to be better than us by 2011). The CAA is really the A-10 - just that the affiliate schools have been reversed. They have 12 schools that play football and not likely to add any outsiders unless the split or the A-10 schools decide to go back to the A-10. I believe this was a done deal before ODU announced anything about football. When ODU does start then the league may need to restructure - 13 teams is a lot.
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Post by eddantes on Oct 21, 2005 17:47:42 GMT -5
Question: Apparently, the CAA football teams (in 2007) are just the same as the A-10 football teams (in 2005). So what happens to the A-10 in 2007? I can't imagine that a conference would simply just drop football as a competitive sport, what with revenue and all.
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Post by ATrain on Oct 21, 2005 18:27:21 GMT -5
Well actually the A10 is dropping it for the moment...most of the football A10 members compete in the CAA for all other sports...except Villanova. What'll likely happen is a couple more non-football CAA schools (ODU definitely, Georgia State and GMU are talking about it) will add football, sending Villanova, Richmond, and others back into the A10, which could just absorb Big South Football.
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Post by Sly Fox on Oct 21, 2005 21:17:56 GMT -5
Basically the A-10 didn't even put a fight when the CAA announced they were sponsoring football. Most believe its because the A-10 presidents have never really been into the hassle that comes from operatibng a football league.
Unless the northern schools of the new CAA football league decade its in their best interests to form their own league to avoid all of the travel costs, I don't see any possibilities in the CAA anytime soon. At some point, perhaps they will splinter intoa couple different factions. Hopefully by then we will be bargaining for admission from a position of strength and not our current predicament. Football is the only thing keeping us from being an attractive addition to some mid-major league like the CAA. If we prove our value there, I think we stand a VERY good chance of joining them in the future. That's why our scheduling W&M, JMU and UR remains important for our future.
Some have mentioned over the years that the SoCon would be the obvious choice for our next move. But after getting rebuffed (and often scoffed at) over the past two decades, I personally dont have much attraction to them. Obviously they are talking with our opponent this week. But frankly I'd prefer to see them linked up with us to be in position to be imnvolved in a joint move somewhere down the road when the timing is right.
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Post by GetRealLU on Oct 24, 2005 7:43:08 GMT -5
I agree with Sly about playing more in state/regional competition which would not only draw more fans but help in the recruiting locally as well as statewide.
Send the checks back to Wake and Rutgers and get JMU and Richmond back on the schedule next year!
With further consideration is it worth playing a DI-A for the big payout and most certain loss not to mention the risk of losing players to injury to the most often lopsided caliber of talent and size on the oppositions side of the ball?
How do you build a quality program when you're guaranteed to lose a game or two a season because of scheduling I-A's? If the LU football program could CONSISTENTLY smoke DII schools and compete if not handily defeat I-AA competition that would be a totally different story. If that was the story i would be all for scheduling Rutgers, Wake Forest, BGSU, Toledo but LU football has to prove itself to alot of people and make alot of changes before that can take place.
I highly doubt playing Uconn will have opened the floodgates of talented high school recruits from the state of Connecticut to come Liberty. Why worry about recruiting out of state when they can't even keep/attract the local prospects at this point in time? You need to successfully recruit regionally before you worry nationally. National exposure is great but Liberty needs a better team to showcase to make any significant breakthrough into the national level recruiting-wise.
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Post by seanspeaker on Nov 7, 2005 1:00:38 GMT -5
I would love playing along side the West for one reason: I am from northeastern Colorado and I have former teammates on the Northern Co. squad. I would love to see a couple of them again.
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