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Post by realist on Dec 8, 2005 13:24:22 GMT -5
I didn't say anything about 16-0, though I don't think that's a unrealistic expectation. Sly, LU has a way to go before competing. The newberry game was proven an aberration by the Alabama game. You have to remember who was coaching Newberry as well, Golden will probably have the WU job if/when Marshall leaves. I don't see any conference games at home being close, but I worry about @csu and @coastal. Bandbox gyms in which we haven't played in a similar type place. 16-0 is tough for anyone, and I actually predicted 15-1 or 14-2. As for the future, next year should be more of the same, 2 years from now will be telling. Marshall is bringing in some major recruits that the Big South has never seen before.
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Post by formerflame on Dec 8, 2005 13:39:03 GMT -5
That is becase most people don't understand the hurdles at Liberty. Dunton has, is and will get it done. It is people like you that keep the dirt in the air. You'll be amazed at how much support Dunton has and where the structure of the program is now. Watch with wide open eyes as he leads this program to greatness in the next five years. There continue to be shortsighted wannabes or at best quick fix factions of our LU community who need to understand what a Division 1 program requires. Coach Dunton, congrats on your success and know that the overwhelming majority is excited about your leadership of Flames Basketball.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 8, 2005 14:05:54 GMT -5
Who was that response to FormerFlame?
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Post by formerflame on Dec 8, 2005 15:56:33 GMT -5
your comments about firing are ridiculous. We have a very good coach and he is a proven winner at every level. We have a program that needed to be developed to produce the support to build. Dunton has lead the way to get the necessary construction financially and staff wise. He consistently plays a schedule to prepare the team. He has a team that will represent us on and off the court. So people need to get on board or stop communicating to the current team members. No one in our circle needs to bring negative energy to the program. If you can't support it, fair enough ,then take a walk.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 8, 2005 16:05:55 GMT -5
your comments about firing are ridiculous. We have a very good coach and he is a proven winner at every level. We have a program that needed to be developed to produce the support to build. Dunton has lead the way to get the necessary construction financially and staff wise. He consistently plays a schedule to prepare the team. He has a team that will represent us on and off the court. So people need to get on board or stop communicating to the current team members. No one in our circle needs to bring negative energy to the program. If you can't support it, fair enough ,then take a walk. I think you missed where i was coming from, I'm the biggest D supporter at LU believe me we're close, I was speaking to all the hater's who are dumb enough to start those threads after a few losses throughout the season forgetting everything he's done...we all to often forget the days of coach Hank that was a used car salesman always saying we've got the best team in history meanwhile finishing last in the country...D tells it like it is, he said this year will be a challenge and we COULD be great...and that's all you can ask for is honesty...speaking of hater's who in the world would start crap like D got arrested??? If someone on here doesnt like him, fine say he cant coach but starting that is just wrong
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Post by prototype on Dec 9, 2005 20:43:00 GMT -5
Prototype: “Winthrop had trouble with Newberry - they have a great team, but everyone in the Big South is Beatable ... “Back to my point, did I mention I hate Winthrop, Coastal Carolina, VMI...and I will until the Small South Conference gives us some credit and sees us for what Liberty is - the top Athletic Power in our Conference.” First, yes they did have trouble with Newberry but then they almost beat the No. 19 team in the country … if you remember correctly, Liberty had trouble with Cincinnati Christian and then we finally pulled away … Secondly, LU is not the top Athletic Power in the Big South … they had a trophy out for that at the end of each year and Coastal Carolina is the school that’s been collecting that one. I was at the game last night and you saw the formula for every team we play … let Blair get his, stop everyone else … if it wasn’t for Buffalo going cold, we would have lost by a lot more at home (a place we’re supposed to dominate). Wow - Winthrop Fan!! Why don't you sign in - I don't say anything without anyone knowing who I am. But, I guess you are afraid of making stupid comments and don't want anyone to know who you are. You don't have to be afraid - it's just our opinions - it's alright to have different opinions. Know lets rip yours apart. Yes they almost beat Alabama - but they didn't. And we all found out that Alabama wasn't as good as their ranking. Lost to Notre Dame, beat Louisiana Tech by 10 and about to drop out of the top 25. If Newberry can compete with them - I know a BS school could too. They had one great year and now their unbeatable? NOT THE ATHLETIC POWER!! You are you using the Sasser Cup argument?? Wow!! Did you know they changed the rules 2 years ago, after Liberty won 5 out 6 Championships. Made it easier for other schools to compete. Who brings the most attention to the Big South?? How many features has Coastal had on Sportscenter. Don't think to hard - ZERO. Let me tell you just a few over the past few years for Liberty University of the Big South Conference - Liberty Women knock off 2 straight ranked teams to reach the Sweet 16, Sam Gado take over as running back and scores 3 touchdowns in first start (wins NFL - rookie of the week), Katie Feenstra 2nd in Rookie of the year Voting - WNBA, Josh McDougal wins every race during cross country season and come in 4th at Nationals (Who ran there for Coastal?). We do more for this conference than any school in the Big South and are consistently more competitive than anyone. We are normally good at every sport, other than Football. We dominate in W. Basketball, Cross Country, Indoor and Outdoor Track. We are consistently good in Baseball, M. Basketball, W. Soccer, M. Soccer, and Volleyball. What is Winthrop good at - Basketball? Coastal - Soccer and Baseball? There is no school that more consistent than Liberty and no one that shines the light on the conference like Liberty does. I don't know if I can respond to the idiotic comments about the Buffalo game. - I hope all coaches take that approach; we competed with a great team. It just gives the other players a chance to step up. Teams normally don't shoot well when you play good defense. Oh wait, I guess we should take the Newberry notes - Winthrop looks past teams they think they can beat - that means they should go 0-16 in the conference.
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Post by prototype on Dec 9, 2005 20:49:58 GMT -5
I didn't say anything about 16-0, though I don't think that's a unrealistic expectation. Sly, LU has a way to go before competing. The newberry game was proven an aberration by the Alabama game. You have to remember who was coaching Newberry as well, Golden will probably have the WU job if/when Marshall leaves. I don't see any conference games at home being close, but I worry about @csu and @coastal. Bandbox gyms in which we haven't played in a similar type place. 16-0 is tough for anyone, and I actually predicted 15-1 or 14-2. As for the future, next year should be more of the same, 2 years from now will be telling. Marshall is bringing in some major recruits that the Big South has never seen before. Marshall STINKS!! Bernie Mac called, he wants his suits back!!
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Post by realist on Dec 9, 2005 20:59:11 GMT -5
That may be the largest piece of crap I've ever read. LU is good at women's sports and olympic stuff. That's it. Which no one cares about. You're not good in Men's basketball. You won one championship when winthrop was hurt. You were one of the worst programs in the nation for a long time, and you just lost to Longwood. Right now, WU and CCU are carrying the load for your pathetic football and basketball programs. You want the truth, that's it. You do well in women's sports and olympic. That's it.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 9, 2005 21:12:09 GMT -5
Sam Gado take over as running back and scores 3 touchdowns in first start (wins NFL - rookie of the week), Careful with the NFL comment....it's just a matter of time Winthrop has a kid starting in the NFL....there team hasn't lost, that i've seen.....
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 9, 2005 21:17:30 GMT -5
That may be the largest piece of crap I've ever read. LU is good at women's sports and olympic stuff. That's it. Which no one cares about. You're not good in Men's basketball. You won one championship when winthrop was hurt. You were one of the worst programs in the nation for a long time, and you just lost to Longwood. Right now, WU and CCU are carrying the load for your pathetic football and basketball programs. You want the truth, that's it. You do well in women's sports and olympic. That's it. Last 10 years whats the Sasser Cup record...or since it began...It's not the Sissy Cup only counting Women's and "Olympic" as you like to say
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Post by prototype on Dec 9, 2005 21:58:12 GMT -5
You're right Realist. The truth is Winthrop should be good at Basketball. They don't have Football. How was Homecoming? Did they have the King/Queen Ceremony during Halftime?
Write me when they actually beat someone, not just get close.
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Post by realist on Dec 10, 2005 3:31:59 GMT -5
I normally am with you guys, but those statements were utterly ridiculous. No one cares about the Sasser Cup anyway, and it favors schools that do well in Olympics, again, which no one cares about. The two premier programs in the league are Winthrop basketball and Coastal football. I don't care we don't have a football team, we look at all the recognition (oh wait, lack thereof) for any football program in the league and it's minimal. We have the dominant team in the dominant sport, plus the other sports that matter. You guys need a wake up call. Sure, you have a good women's basketball team, for the 200 fans that care. You do nothing for this league in the sports that bring recognition. Just a fact. Quit dreaming of being a D1 football team and "top 50" basketball program, and concentrate on just making yourself respectable.
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Post by eddantes on Dec 10, 2005 9:43:43 GMT -5
I normally am with you guys, but those statements were utterly ridiculous. No one cares about the Sasser Cup anyway, and it favors schools that do well in Olympics, again, which no one cares about. The two premier programs in the league are Winthrop basketball and Coastal football. I don't care we don't have a football team, we look at all the recognition (oh wait, lack thereof) for any football program in the league and it's minimal. We have the dominant team in the dominant sport, plus the other sports that matter. You guys need a wake up call. Sure, you have a good women's basketball team, for the 200 fans that care. You do nothing for this league in the sports that bring recognition. Just a fact. Quit dreaming of being a D1 football team and "top 50" basketball program, and concentrate on just making yourself respectable. Let me pick this apart, piece by piece. I normally am with you guys, but those statements were utterly ridiculous. No one cares about the Sasser Cup anyway, and it favors schools that do well in Olympics, again, which no one cares about. No one does care about the Sasser Cup, but how does it favor schools that do well in the Olympics? The olympics have nothing to do with Sasser Cup standings. In fact, Coastal won the Sasser Cup because of strong performances in football and baseball, neither of which are sports that will be fielded in the 2008 olympics. I would hardly call a team that defines a good year by getting a 14 seed to the NCAA tourney as "premier." Coastal hasn't made it to the playoffs, and it's up in the air how they'll do once their upper-classmen start to graduate. With this statement, you just negated the praise for Coastal you had in your last statement. And you would care about football, I guarantee it, if Winthrop had a program that won the championship. You wouldn't be saying it didn't matter, no one gets recognition anyway. How do I know this? Because you're talking about Winthrop being a premier program in basketball, and the recognition *they* get is minimal for their accomplishments. The dominant sport in the league is baseball -- the only one that sees two (and could feasibly see three) teams in the NCAA. Winthrop won that, and basketball. Just out of curiosity, were those the two you were referring to? Or are you trying to push the Winthrop women's tennis team's dominance as one of the "sports that matter."? Just for the record, when it comes to only male sports -- LU wins the Sasser Cup. For as much play as our women get, it's the men who carry the program. As for the "sports that bring recognition" -- I only count four in all of NCAA -- football, baseball, and men & women's basketball. We bring as much to the table in football that Winthrop does. Women's basketball speaks for itself. Our baseball team, in 2000, actually won an NCAA tournament game -- can Winthrop say that? (no seriously, can they?) And basketball, well, no one outside of Rock Hill, S.C. gives a rip about Winthrop the day after they get blown out by Duke in round 1 of the tourney. Am I supposed to believe that's "respectable"? No one. And I mean no one. Outside of the top 50 in basketball is "respectable." The same thing for anybody in I-AA (does anyone act in reverence towards I-AA contender Montana?). LU has a goal, and that's to be the best that it can be. We see that manifest itself at times, like in women's basketball and cross-country. At such a young university, it's natural to be thinking about what LU can be -- and what's next. At Winthrop, they seem to be happy with their situation. You guys should make that your motto: "Winthrop University: Content with Mediocrity."
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Post by Sly Fox on Dec 10, 2005 9:48:37 GMT -5
Easy, guys. Right now Winthrop is unquestionably carrying the banner for the league in mens hoops and is right with CCU in baseball. CCU was the standardbearer in football until Chuck South shocked the world this year proving how poor the league is in general once again.
The Big South essentially right now is CCU, WU, LU and then a mess. Bashing each other is ridiculous. None of us have arrived yet. To say our basketball program is "not good" is a rather weak take. Sure we had a few years where the program fell into the abyss under Mel. But that was an aberration. We have been in the hunt for the league title nearly every season since we joined the Big South.
As for the Sasser Cup, I agree with Realist that it really doesn't mean much.
Now moving on since this is the mens hoops forum. I'm seeing us become more dangerous game after game. Bringing up that awful Longwood loss on the road is about as fair to us as nearly losing to Newberry at home. Neither are representative of what the team is capable of in conference play. I'm a Winthrop fan until league play begins.
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Post by WinthropEagleFan on Dec 10, 2005 11:16:23 GMT -5
[quote author=eddantes board=MHoops thread=1133885381 post=1134225823 Just for the record, when it comes to only male sports -- LU wins the Sasser Cup. For as much play as our women get, it's the men who carry the program. As for the "sports that bring recognition" -- I only count four in all of NCAA -- football, baseball, and men & women's basketball. We bring as much to the table in football that Winthrop does. Women's basketball speaks for itself. Our baseball team, in 2000, actually won an NCAA tournament game -- can Winthrop say that? (no seriously, can they?) And basketball, well, no one outside of Rock Hill, S.C. gives a rip about Winthrop the day after they get blown out by Duke in round 1 of the tourney. Am I supposed to believe that's "respectable"?
Winthrop's baseball team has been to 4 NCAA regionals, and they haven't advanced beyond that round, but in all four cases, they have won at least a game (in a couple of cases, they have won two).
With that said, my take on the whole thing is, if you are going to field a team in a sport, you might as well be good at it, so I'm never going to knock anyone for having a good golf, softball, or track team, even if those are sports that I personally don't follow much. When it comes to college sports, I'm a huge follower of men's basketball, baseball, and football, along with having a decent interest in volleyball, women's basketball, and men's soccer. So because of that, those are the sports I hope Winthrop does best at, only because I enjoy watching those the most. The tennis teams do great, and I'm happy for it, but I don't have their schedule printed out and on my desk either. Would I like Winthrop to have football? Yes, but only if it didn't hamper the other sports, specifically men's basketball and baseball. As Prototype said, "You're right Realist. The truth is Winthrop should be good at Basketball. They don't have Football."...So you can't be good at both? If that's the case, I don't want football since men's basketball gives Winthrop the most opportunities to be on TV, the chance to compete in the best and most visible postseason tournament, and is the sport that jumpstarted the whole athletic department once it became successful.
And finally, on the Sasser Cup thing, my biggest beef with it is that it counts the results from both indoor and outdoor track. Yes, I realize they are both championship sports for the conference (and I don't have a problem with that), but it is essentially giving double-weight to a certain group of athletes, because it is basically the same people competing in the basically the same events in the same sports. I'm sure there is a slight difference between the two, but having a good indoor program practically assures you of having a good outdoor program and vice versa. It would be like them adding outdoor basketball in the spring and counting that. Even the Sears Cup (or whatever they call the National director's cup now) only counts the higher of the two results in indoor and outdoor track for each team's rating, not both.
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Post by eddantes on Dec 10, 2005 12:12:47 GMT -5
And finally, on the Sasser Cup thing, my biggest beef with it is that it counts the results from both indoor and outdoor track. Yes, I realize they are both championship sports for the conference (and I don't have a problem with that), but it is essentially giving double-weight to a certain group of athletes, because it is basically the same people competing in the basically the same events in the same sports. I wholeheartedly agree with everything WinthropEagleFan said in his previous post, and I'm highlighting this because he brings up an excellent point. The Sasser Cup, one of the reasons why no one should give a rip about it, is highly flawed -- for the reason that WinthropEagleFan gave, and more. For example: Coastal Carolina won the football championship in 2004. For that, they were awarded 7.5 points towards the Sasser Cup standings. Coastal also won the women's golf championship. For that, they were awarded 12 points. Does anyone else think it's unfair that different sports are weighed differently?
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Post by realist on Dec 10, 2005 13:24:42 GMT -5
A few points to reiterate:
A D1AA football championship would bring about as much attention as a first round NCAA tournament win. In which we are much closer to accomplishing than any football program in the league, respectively.
The Sasser Cup is a joke.
We get more press and recognition in men's basketball than any other school's sports combined. You can deny that our program is top notch, but the rest of the country doesn't see it that way.
I have nothing against LU and like most of the guys on here and root for you, however, it's these proclamations from a few (which seem to be out of frustration more than anything) of being the "premier big south program" that are honestly just funny and to a point annoying. I'm not the only one, LU is getting ripped a new one on a football board after Jerry made his 10 year plan declaration. I've never proclaimed WU to be the premier program in the league overall, because there isn't one, CCU and LU help shoulder the load like Sly said. But you're only going to get laughed at with the too big for your britches statements.
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Post by jimflamesfan on Dec 10, 2005 14:32:17 GMT -5
I cheer for Winthrop out of conference as well! I cheer for the whole Big South...I agree with Sly, it's CCU, Winthrop, LU, and then the rest (maybe VMI will pick up with new FB and BB coaches)...
It would have been awesome if Winthrop had beat Gonzaga last year...would have made a neat story, and then the Big South could have had both a men's and women's team playing in the second round.
Anyway, the better Winthrop, LU, Coastal, and the the others can get, the better the conference is...Go Big South...
To me, I know that we pick on each other...the LU/Radford LU/Winthrop stuff is fun, but bottom line...out of conference we should cheer for the other Big South Schools.
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Post by PAmedic on Dec 12, 2005 8:55:04 GMT -5
REALIST- still feeling good about that loss to 'Bama after unranked Temple beat them by 10? thats not gonna help your RPI. (but you are right on one thing: I'm talking smack because we are playing like crap so far! hoping we can beat you guys at least ONCE this year to validate all this trash talk!)
here's the last 3 headlines for Alabama games:
December 10, 2005 Temple upends Alabama, ends streak vs. ranked teams
December 7, 2005 Notre Dame upsets No. 19 Alabama in Tuscaloosa
December 3, 2005 No. 18 Alabama squeaks by Winthrop
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Post by PAmedic on Dec 12, 2005 8:59:49 GMT -5
I gotta admit, the only thing we have in common with Winthrop right now is bragging about the ranked "big" teams we both CONSISTENTLY lose to! we both need to start WINNING some of these games!
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Post by realist on Dec 12, 2005 9:42:29 GMT -5
Consistently lose to? We have one loss on the season and beat Marquette, a Big East school. You might want to ask Missouri, Clemson, Providence, etc if we lose consistently to big schools. They'd have a different answer.
Alabama is a good team, Temple can give anyone fits with their match-up zone, the Notre Dame loss is iffy.
I'm not sure where the trash talking comes in, our only loss on the season is was to a #19 ranked squad and we lost by 3.
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Post by PAmedic on Dec 12, 2005 9:54:14 GMT -5
to be honest- 'bama won't be a top 25 team by the end of the week. They were #22 in the AP and #19 in the ESPN polls w/ 1 loss, now have 3. So that drops their stock quite a bit.
and you're STILL talking about a "big name" school you lost to last year! (the mighty Zags, who squeaked by unranked OK St by 2)
AGAIN, your program is undeniably better than ours, so until we beat ya- we have to take verbal beating! still like having you guys over here, too (WEF/REALIST)- and looking forward to that Memphis game.
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Post by PAmedic on Dec 12, 2005 9:55:19 GMT -5
all kidding aside, success of any team in the BSOUTH is good for EVERBODY! we need to keep that in mind.
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