Christian vs Non Christian Athlete

[krh44]

I wanted to see what everyone thought about LU and recruiting of athletes, should they take a Christian athlete over a non Christian athlete who maybe more talented? I think it must be a tough position for a LU coach because they are expected to win. Carey Green has the best of both worlds with players like Katie. I have no problem w/ LU recruiting non Christian athletes. However, I don't think that it is right for LU athletes to get away with certain things that other students would be kicked out of school for. (ie stealing) and is it shocking when a former LU hoops player was on the front of a gay magazine. LU has some awesome coaches and players (ie girls hoops and Lacrosse teams as well but the outside world is very quick to point out LU athletes who have "gone astray".

[PAmedic]

it would be hard to remain open minded on this yet have an official policy against it. I think the coaches should have the latitude to approach each student/athelete on an individual basis. Your point is well taken, and the problem is not indiginous to LU, look at Baylor. There seem to be an increasing number of atheletes resorting to violence and/or capital crimes- lately Tennessee and S. Carolina have had issues as well.

[SCAR]

In my opinion turning away an athlete just because he is not a Christian is wrong. Now we are not speaking about character here. There are Christian athletes that behave poorly and there are non-Christian athletes that are model citizens. We are told to evangelize throughout the world and many if not all coaches at Liberty subscribe to the philosophy that their sport is used as a medium to share the gospel. I know for a fact that there have been many athletes who were not Christians when they came on campus but were converted once they were allowed to live in an environment that nurtured their spiritual growth and that shared the gospel with them. Some simply had never heard the Word before and some were around church all of their lives but really never understood what it meant to be a Christian. To me the issue is not whether to allow an unbeliever into the school. The issue still boils down to character when you are recruiting. They use that term in all sports today at all levels and it is a real issue in sports. Too many organizations and programs have been burned by mis-behaving athletes on and off the playing surface. By recruiting all professed Christians do you think that it is a panacea for off court issues? Absolutely not. We still live in the physical world and people have short-comings and flaws Christians and non-Christians alike. Plus the fact that as coaches at Liberty your goal is to impact a young man's life in a positive manner and help them grow and be successful in this world and represent themselves, their family, the University and above all the cause of Christ after they graduate. Wouldn't it be tragic to turn someone away for non-belief and they end up never getting saved? To me it is a no brainer. When recruiting you should look at their character and behavior not whether or not they are Christians when they get here. You are concerned with if they are Christians by the time they leave.

[ATrain]

Wait...which former hoopster turned gay? Is there a pic of that cover? And what was the article about? Not that I think anyone on here reads gay magazines nor am I interested in reading one, but I do wanna see the article about him if there was one.

[HoldMyOwn]

A coach went to Jerry about a year ago and asked him...do you want me to recruit non Christians...and Jerry's response is of course, it's the best way to witness to some of these players who have made their sport their lives although the majority needs to be Christian so they have good influences on their team…As much as I’d like to think we do…I feel like some teams the majority are non Christians…and the problem you run into now is having the Christians afraid to step out because there aren’t as many to get their back when push comes to shove…but yes there are a lot of players who even if they don’t act saved here it is instilled in them and later in life it shows

[krh44]

Atrain
A friend of mine told me about it. It was probably around 2000 or so. I will do some research but I may have some explaining to do to my wife.

[Sly Fox]

I love this conversation. I believe we should be targeting the top professing Christian athletes in America. Its the place where I feel we have the strngest opportunity to advance athletically. Let's face it, our Christianity is our best selling point.

Now I don't have any problem accepting non-Christians to our school as long as they are willing to play by our rules. If they are willing to come and be preached to throughout their years on campus I welcome them wholeheartedly. I know a number of athletes arrived on campus and had their worlds turned upside down by the Gospel and have never been the same. That's fantastic in my opinion.

I don't like the idea of just trying to recruit the best available players to our low mid-major position in the NCAA food chain. I believe that type of thinking is holding us back. I believe we need to be positioning ourselves to attract the best athletes in America. Our belief structure is what distinguishes us from everyone else.

Just my two cents worth.

[HoldMyOwn]

let's not lose site of the fact that there are Shane Battier's out there who want to study religion even at a non christian school...I'm not saying we've reached a point where we can land that type of player although we should be trying very hard because if you can land 1 out of 100 b/c they were led to Liberty then 2 recruiting classes around this one player can change the face of Liberty forever....I really believe that the best and most effective way to recruit is to make yourself seem different...we are REALLY different then most schools and that does appeal to some....not many but some

[SCAR]

Again, lets not confuse Character with Christianity. There are many kids that profess to be Christians and don't behave like that and there are many kids that come on campus with no real understanding of the gospel and are model citizens. I know for a fact that some hoop stars came into the school that were not saved but being exposed to the gospel and Christian leaders became curious and wound up getting saved. As a former student athlete, having a Christian environment was important but was not the only thing that weighed in my decision to attend Liberty. You don't have to find a religious school to have a good environment. Conversely even at Liberty if you want to live foul you will find your share of brethren willing to participate...As far as going after the top Christian athletes, I can testify that Men's basketball goes after the top 100 players sometimes the top 10 players when they show an interest. I personally helped coach Dunton many years ago with recruiting Chris Webber who at the time had Liberty as a top 5 choice (mostly because of his parents). I talked with CWebb on the phone even though I wasn't coaching or playing at the time but I knew I could give him a real feel for Liberty. (I wonder what happened to that Weber guy ). My only point is at Liberty you should evaluate character not just belief system.

[Sly Fox]

I'll tell you what happened to that Webber guy. He was infiltrated with that cesspool of a school called Michigan!

(Ohio native stepping down off of soapbox)

[aLUmnus]

Can Ohio fans reach the soapbox?

[LUconn]

Maybe if we had had our new AD back then we could have out bid Michigan for Webber. Afterall he's supposed to have fund raising skills so I'm sure we could afford him.

[JackSparrow81]

are you going to try to tell me UCONN has never illegally recruited or any school for that matter? College players like Webber should get paid. They brought more money into that program than anything. Jerseys and promotions. heck i had my share of fab five jerseys and shorts. im sure Khalid el Amin got some like free year long pass to Mcdonalds or something.

[aLUmnus]

blah blah blah
*yawn*
somebody wake me up when jack stops talking.

[ATrain]

Shouldn't it be Captain Jack Sparrow? Also Krh, I don't want you gettin in trouble with your wife so I'll just research it when I'm not on campus.

[krh44]

Atrain
I think I know the player but don't want to post until I am 100% sure.

I recently got a Matt Hagen 03 Autographed card off ebay signed w/ 1 Tim. 3:7. I can't say enough about Katie Feenstra and Josh McDougal. What athletes BUT more importantly what testimonies. That is what LU sports is about.

[Sly Fox]

Glen Rice & Mo Taylor used to openly joke with us in the lockerroom about how Michigan paid WAY more than anybody else would consider. Juwan doesn't like to talk about it. He's the only one of the Fab Five that seems to be ashamed of it. The two Texans that filled out the Fab Five were a very poor investment. I used to see one of those guys running at rec centers in Austin. Jimmy is supposedly still playing somewhere in Europe. But I'll bet GOAT could give you more scoop.

Bottom line, plenty of schools have paid for play and still do. Generally, it comes from wealthy alumni who have visions of owning pro teams but not quite enough jack to join that fraternity. Then again, the deep pockets guys at Texas also own pro franchises (Red McCombs, Tom Hicks, etc.).

[LUconn]

Guest-jacksparrow81 said:

are you going to try to tell me UCONN has never illegally recruited or any school for that matter?

I am going to try to tell you that. They've done their share of throwing money around to get a player, but it was always within the rules of the NCAA. In fact, the NCAA has since changed the rules because of their recruitment of Rudy Gay. But anyway, it's all been legal and that's the way it should be. Now your hero coach K on the other hand, has done some illegal things but the NCAA has looked the other way.

[SCAR]

LUConn,

with all due respect I would have to say that you can't really know for sure if Coach Ariema or Calhoun or anyone has not cheated. There are so many ways to circumvent the system but still be considered cheating if you got caught. Now I am not accusing any one school or coach of anything but I know 100's of division 1 players that have played at many schools and I can't think of too many that have not admitted to receiving "gifts" for their play. I have had a few recruits ask me when I was coaching at LU how much we pay. That question alone suggests that it is so common place that these kids assume it is part of the process. Open to a whole different discussion is why it is against the rules to pay these guys in the first place. I won't get on a soap box but college athletics is the most exploitive business in the history of the 20th century. Tell me another example of a person providing a good or service where they collect less than .00001% of the profits. It is crazy. Now every school is different in terms of the money generated but we know this. The NCAA has a 10 billon dollar TV deal. We can't even count to 1 billion without messing up let alone 10. In summary I would not just come out and say Conn or any other big school is totally clean. Odds are that they are not. Just the way the world works.

[LUconn]

Well certianly I wouldn't claim that I know the program is completely clean. But I've never seen anything tto tell me the other way. There's been some things in the gray area, Such as paying a large some of money to an AAU squad that was thrown together at the last minute including a recruit on the roster for a preseason game, but nothing against the rules. So in that case I wouldn't say the program is is dirty.

So anyway Scar, is LU clean? How much did you get for playing? Based on the fact that half the dorms on campus are 30 year old trailers I wouldnt think we'd drop a dime on a player at anypoint. I don't even think we have any boosters to funnel that type of thing anyway.

[GOAT]

Scar would be like Kobe if he told what went on behind doors in LU Hoops. I know one thing, up the street at UVA those guys are printing money to players, at least they were from 1992-1998. I know that first hand not second. The Boosters there knew how to take car of a player. Just ask Curtis Staples, Cory Alexander, Courtney Alexander, Norman Nolan, Willie Dersch, Junior Burroughs, Jason Williford. I can go on on about what was going on at UVA. I heard it straight from the horses mouths. Scar remember when Courtney Alexander posterized you when they stayed at Liberty for the summer in '96.

[Sly Fox]

If some of the top talent in the nation is moving to dinky Storrs to play college ball, there has to be some sort of reason to make such a curious decision. And let's face it, Calhoun's personality screams schiester (sp?).

I would hope that we try to run a clean program considering our school's purpose, I am not naive enough to think we haven't possibly skirted the rules at some point. Most certainly it was done without the knowledge of senior Athletic Department officials. But an assistant coach would be very tempted to do some things with his job at stake based on recruiting success. I'll bet Scar can tell you that temptation to do wrong was there even though he chose not to. I'm around summer ball enough to see how commonplace it is.

We obviously need to do something with this farce of a system that rewards the cheaters and punishes those who choose to play by the rules.

[SCAR]

I will never, ever forget those pick up games with the UVA players. Courtney was a true game dunker as I saw 1st hand. What compelled me to even think about jumping with him was the fact that he took off so far the last thing on my mind was him dunking on me. Staples still remembers that well too....GOAT, you just put UVA on full Blast! But I will say that they had a few perks when they "worked" in Lynchburg during those summers....LUConn if Liberty was dirty, I certainly wouldn't be on this board telling you guys. That said, we ran a clean program when I was there and I would say that Coach Dunton is running one now. I can't speak for Hankinson's era because I was out of the loop. Maybe Former Player or HMO can comment on that....As far as did I get paid? Again, you wouldn't expect me to just come out and say something like that would you? But no, I was a walk-on. I barely got a scholarship. I am the only person in school history to get a full ride as a walk-on. That is a rare feat and I can only thank God things worked out the way they did for me. Sure I was good enough to play but the opportunity may not have ever presented itself. I feel blessed to this day for my time playing at LU. LUConn I like the Mike Wallace from 60 Minutes approach you take . You ask the tough questions. You need to get in the business....I will say this about LU boosters. Don't think they don't have financial juice. You know Art Williams and Tim LaHaye are considered boosters. There are others with considerable dollars as well that potentially support Liberty and its athletics.

[GOAT]

Courtney and Jamal Robinson had major game. You ever see Staples anymore?

[SCAR]

I see Staples all the time. He lives in Lynchburg. He was at the Radford game because his boy Troy Manns is a coach there. You played against Troy at VA Tech.

[GOAT]

Troy Manns shold have been a safety or Linebacker because he was diesel. I think Curt has a company called Quick Release. Is he still trying to play ball overseas. Where is Harold Deane at?

[SCAR]

Staples plays for the Roanoke Dazzle along with Corey Alexander and others that I can't think of right now. The big kid from Texas with the huge shoulders plays there too. Sly can remember his name I am sure. The last time I saw Harold Deane he was working at the Macaroni grill when I lived in Reston, VA back in 1999....As far as AAU ball as Sly mentioned, it is a situation that a lot of big time coaches take advantage of. I didn't even bring that up in my earlier notation because there are so many ways to skirt around the rules with AAU ball being un-regulated that it deserves a whole separate discussion....Sly you can't judge location of a school as reason to say they must cheat if they get kids to go there. But I get your point. UConn has had its share of superstar high school players over the years in men's and women's hoops. I have never been to Lawrence Kansas or Omaha Nebraska or Tuscaloosa, Ok but they don't sound like great places to choose to live for 4 years. Those schools always have good football and basketball teams. Are they cheating? Probably but that is because the whole system is out of control.

[LUconn]

It seems more like a controlled chaos. The NCAA likes to make examples of some people/programs and let others slide. It's kind of silly, but I'm sure they know what they're doing and how to maximize profits.

[GOAT]

The NCAA is the biggest hypocrite of them all. It is all about the benjamins and Scar said it perfect, The NCAA is not complaining about there $10 Billion dollar TV deal.

[Sly Fox]

I just wish the NCAA could get over their kickbacks enough to look at fixing their IA football mess. Some people can't comprehend longterm riches in exchange for shortterm profits.