Re: LU Radio

[Sly Fox]

Jerry will continue to do the play-by-play as long as he so desires. By virtue of his position at the station and his tenure at the mic, he has total control of his own destiny.

That said, perhaps he has slipped a bit. But frankly, everyone loses a bit of their touch after a certain period of time. But Jerry still does an adequate job. Just take a listen to some broadcasts for other programs of similar stature.

I certainly doubt they would ever turn over the play-by-play duties to students. I know when I was in school I did some play-by-play on the student staion of baseball games that I thought was pretty good at the time. Looking back, it was one notch above awful.

I'm guessing that if Jerry ever decides that he has had enough, there will be no shortage of qualified talent ready to step into his position.

By the way, I ran into Jerry a few years back at Baylor where the mens team were playing to let some of the Texans on the squad play in front of family & friends. We had a good talk and I joked with him about the 'C' he gave me in sportscasting class 15 years earlier. Thankfully, I didn't let his opinion desuade me from advancing in my profession.

[Sly Fox]

Forgive my ignorance regarding this Hall kid. I only sparingly listen to LU broadcasts.

Is Mike Tilley still around the Lynchburg area? If he is, he would be a nice heir apparent to Jerry.

[eddantes]

Not sure about Mike Tilley... I do know that there was some guy from Liberty that started doing sports talk in Lynchburg before moving onto Dallas (Bob something) but last I heard he bashes LU since moving on.

They did have another guy recently who worked for WRVL and the campus station and was pretty good at it, but he had to leave.

I do hope that they don't turn the reigns over to students for men's basketball or football. In the immortal words of Strong Bad, college radio can be summed up in five words: "dead air, ummm, dead air."

[LUconn]

While we're on the subject of bashing LU

What's the deal with the local media anyway? We've got D1 program's in this town and they're all LU's. The News and Advance rarely covers anything that we do (they actually had good coverage of the BS tourney last year), the local news wants nothing to do with reporting scores or anything of the likes, and local talk radio won't mention them. The local show "the sports line" is hosted by 2 guys, one of them an LU grad. He won't touch the program with a 10 foot pole. His buddy even pokes fun at them occasionally. I don't know what this town's problem is. Jerry and this school has brought more to this city than the freaking shoe factories. They're too busy drooling over VT and UVA, programs that are 150-200 miles away and are irrelevant in their respective bball leagues.

[PAmedic]

I'm amazed this suprises you- called media bias. I was actually shocked to see them start running scores on the ESPN ticker a few years ago. Put it this way- I remember local media ignoring us 15 years ago, I am sure its no better now. Sad when the local community college and HS teams get more air time then LU!

[eddantes]

As a guy who wound up being rejected for employment by both the paper and the radio station... let me tell you that the bias is even worse that you think.

At the News & Advance, the managing editor of the paper DESPISES Falwell... In fact, Falwell mentioned this to one of my classes once, basically saying that the paper was sold to some new ownership group, but regretably they didn't clean house when they got in. Furthermore, the LU beat writer is the most inept, retarded, (and subsequently sycophantic) journalist alive. Besides, you would be a little jaded too if the school refused to answer any legitimate questions...

At the radio (and I spoke with the LU guy for like a half hour) he said that basically you don't have a dedicated fan base that would light the phones up when they start being talked about. Plus, the school is sooo closed off when it comes to its sports. The guy from Liberty said that he had President Borek in the studio back during the last days of the Mel Hankinson tenure that he would just dodge questions and spin things - basically said that he was satisfied with the progress of the team... So the guys called him on it, and saying "how could you call it progress, when after four years you went from last in the nation, and then last in the nation." And so, they don't like being on the radio.

And, the other guy hates us.

[Sly Fox]

Fellas, as someone who worked on the top-rated radio station in Lynchburg back in the day (secretly in deference to the Liberty Way) I can tell you Lynchburg is SMALL market. Period. Having a pair of knuckleheads babbling about the Redskins and UVa is not exactly compelling radio.

As for that fishwrap inappropriately using the word "Advance" in its title, it is a flat out joke.

As a longtime member of the media, I can tell you that people care about what they are trained to care about through daily reports. If WSET, the fishwrap and local radio did regular coverage of LU sports then the general public would begin to have some interest. But if the general public never is exposed to the product in their own backyard, how can they be expected to have an interest? Its a Catch-22.

Who is this Bob guy who supposedly is now in Dallas? I'm familiar with most of the sports guys in Dallas and I don't know any Bobs up there.

[aLUmnus]

Honestly, regardless of what the media says, the media dictates a lot of what people care about and think. Sly Fox was right, if there's coverage, there's interest. Problem is, not even the school's station pays attention to LU sports. "News" around here reports more scores for Randolph-Macon/Longwood/Lynchburg College than they do LU, which is blatantly pathetic.

The guys on the SportsLine are morons, and the show is horrible radio. They blather on for an hour about absolutely nothing. Roanoke has a show on ESPN radio (Greg Roberts) that I despise, because I despise Roanoke, but at least they talk about local sports.

The people in Lynchburg have NOTHING to do but go out to eat and get drunk at social gatherings. Giving exposure to LU sports would change that. Exposure means attendance, attendance means better teams, better atmosphere, and better quality games played at home (even better teams coming here to play).

We have the facilities, they're just filled with empty seats right now.

And what AD/college president ever gives a straight answer? They will always say they like the direction of the team, and will never give honest, negative comments about their programs. Why would it be any different with LU?

[grimmy 50]

I have to get in on this banter. From my perspective (I am a sportstalk junkie, LU Alum and have much to listen to in the Pittsburgh Market + the vastnes of XM Radio) the biases exist because of the lack of a media friendly administration. Granted, the AD's, College Presidents, and Chancellor are supposed to give the pat answers, but they still need to be available. Honestly, Kim Graham has the personality of screen door (great guy - I really like him, just no personality) and Dr. Falwell and Dr. Borek are more concerned with larger issues than being interviewed about sports because it is not the biggest thing at LU.

Pitt (please no snide remarks from the lambasting we took from Utah ) athletics are huge and the Chancellor is visible at all games and is he and the AD are always talking to the news and print media because they are available. Now Pitt is doing well and is nationally renown, but from you who may be familiar with Western PA, the Steelers dominate the airwaves. The Steelers spring practices light up phone lines while Pitt was in the Sweet Sixteen and the Pirates were starting the season. Pitt often plays eighth fiddle to the major sports in the area, but I digress (I am making a point).........

From my previous posts, you know that I am in marketing and I believe the lack of coverage is from a lack of local advertising. Now, advertising is the first thing to go when budgets get tight - and lets face it, Liberty has no true stream of revenue. Yes, there are media biases, but does the University even still try to reach out? Ok, so maybe a few doors will be shut (all right, slammed) but no one can slam a radio add (on a secular station) shut. No one can not return the call of a billboard on the side of a GLTC bus. Bottom line, if we advertise in the News and "Advance" (chuckle, chuckle) we are driving revenue to the paper. Now if we advertise regularly and largely, we become a new and valuable stream of revenue. Money talks and can erase a bias. Its not the only solution to the problem, but lets reach out instead of complaining about a bias. Isnt that the Christian way anyway - reaching out?

Liberty is looked at as a stuffy institution with all kinds of rules and people who are "holier than thous". You alumni know the stigma people have against Liberty. If you are from Western PA - you are known by Eric Green (ugh! - I prefer the original stigma). Anyway, to dispel the myth you have to open up and be media friendly and spend money with the media outlets. The people that have these opinions, well forget them and focus on the decision makers who can tell them how to think......

[bubba]

bribing the news and advance might be a good idea. bribing the sportscaster for that local TV station might be a better idea. let jerry take him to shula's or ruth's a few times and let the guy find twenty hundreds under his steak.

btw, i remember hearing a LU football (i think..maybe it was just CFAW) commericial on one the the secular radio stations last year

[Sly Fox]

Is Dennis Carter still at WSET? He spoke at Jerry's Sportscasting class for us close to twenty years ago (yes, I am getting that old). My guess is he is mailing it in now just like he did back then. I can tell you from personal experience that if you stay at one station too long, you get lazy. That's why I made my move to Houston a few years back.

You want to know how to get television coverage? Its really rather simple ... feed the media. I can't tell you how many times I went to coever something just for a free meal. I kid you not.

Frankly, I don't think the Lynchburg community at large cares much about what the chancellor or AD thinks. I can tell you that unless there is some major scandal or conference alignment issue involved, talking to college presidents or chancellors are a complete waste of time and of little interest to general sporting public. The ones who need to be in front of the camera selling the program to the public are the athletes and coaches. If you can find compellign stories that give the community more of a connection with the team, then they are more likely to come out to games and start talking about what is going on with the Flames at the office.

As for advertising, it is generally cost-prohibitive. There simply are not the funds. But it would be awesome to try.

[eddantes]

Sly - to answer your question about Bob - he's part of a duo called "Bob and Dan" on sportsradio 1310 in Dallas. That's about all the info I can give you on him, but seeing that you're a Houston guy, then maybe you can give me some.

1310... Ironically, the same call numbers of the station I work for in Va. Beach...

Dennis Carter is still at WSET, and still mailing it in.

I think that most of the ads done by Liberty are done by this group called "Prototype Advertising" - they're the guys that give designs to the News & Advance; they re-did the logo. The problem is that the people heading up it are young guys - Liberty grads - who basically let LU push them around when negotiating a contract. Because they don't have any money, one of my friends was forced to quit (because they wanted to double his workload and cut his salary). Prototype is talented... But they're kids.

I work at the local ESPN radio affiliate, and my boss - who has won countless "best broadcaster" in the state awards - said that controversy drives callers, which increases listeners. The solution he was given nearly 20 years ago, when no one called? "Rip the Redskins."

But here's my points - number one, you can rip Liberty and no one will call, because they're right. Number two, Liberty fans come from across the country to Lynchburg, and not all of them respond well to controversy. I come from the New York media, and second-guessing is our job. But someone in like Minnesota or St. Louis... well, they're more passive.

I dunno. Maybe that made no sense. So I'll leave you with a classic quote from my LU days::::

"Many of you may have seen the billboard in Lynchburg with Coach Ken Karcher saying that 'it's good business to stay at the Wingate.' I spoke with some advertising execs here, and they said that it's a great ad... For the Holiday Inn."
- Me, on the student radio station, back in 2002.

[PittLU]

Well, we are in a quandry. Crappy local media and a bad reputation. The only way to fix it is blow it up and start over. Only LU has control of that, but I think we have better perspective being away from Lynchburg. Those of you still in Lynchburg have perspective that falls on deaf ears. So, what do you do?

[Sly Fox]

Bob from Bob and Dan on The Ticket in Dallas is an LU alum? Based on what I've heard on air from him, that comes as a MAJOR surprise. On perhaps the finest sports talk station in the country, he's part of the early afternoon duo that are probably the weakest link on that station (up against Rome for their first two hours). They go the EXTEME lowbrow route. Still, that is a great station to work for under any circumstances.

Ed --- I didn't know you were in the biz. Your boss is absolutely on target on what drives listenership. But you have to have an interest in something in order to care enough to be drawn into a controversy. The problem with LU sports in the community is pure & simple apathy. Until Central Virginia buys into Liberty as something to be concerned with, they will continue to go on in obscurity.

And once again, keep in mind that Lynchburg is SMALL market. Its the loss of the fishwrap & television stations to be ingnoring what could be a nice property to talk about. Ignoring Liberty in Lynchburg is not only bad business, its simply idiocy. But such is the state of affairs in a town that generally wishes the school never existed int he first place (except when they came make a buck off the students).

[Prototype]

Response to eddantes - Reply #12 (comment below):
"I think that most of the ads done by Liberty are done by this group called "Prototype Advertising" - they're the guys that give designs to the News & Advance; they re-did the logo. The problem is that the people heading up it are young guys - Liberty grads - who basically let LU push them around when negotiating a contract. Because they don't have any money, one of my friends was forced to quit (because they wanted to double his workload and cut his salary). Prototype is talented... But they're kids."

My name is Josh and I'm one of the owners of Prototype and I wanted to respond to your comments. Of our 11 employees, only 4 of us are Liberty Grads. We do not have the Liberty contract because we are grads, but because we are a very qualified agency. Now, being a Liberty grad myself, I do believe allows me to have an invested interest to see Liberty Athletics explode to the point where Dr. Falwell envisions. Thanks for calling us young - I look to that as a compliment. I assure you that we are very qualified to help get Liberty University Athletics to that next level. We currently work with 5 professional teams and over 45 clients nationally. We have completed high end design projects for Footlocker Corporate, just finished an ad campaign for the Jordan Company, and are working on the 2nd of 4 posters for Nike. My agency could not do that, if we were kids. We have a contract that is fair to both sides and are working hard and diligently to increase the value and excitement of Liberty Athletics. It will take some time, but we are starting to see results. Your former friend, who worked here, was not let go because of the contract, money, or doubling of responsibility - He was let go because we needed someone in that position that had different strengths needed to help Liberty.

I hope this answered some of your questions. Please let me know if you have anymore.

Go Flames!!!!

[PAmedic]

yo Proto- thanks for jumping in. I know a lot of us have questions about the LU ad/marketing strategy. How involved ARE you guys- are you limited in what you can do- why is there no national LU presence? is money the issue? I'm sure contract legalities may prevent you from answering some of these but we are all curious over here.

[HarrisburgFlame]

I help build promotional campaigns for various pharmaceutical companies. Needless to say branding and brand recognition are the goals. The companies that have bought into the total marketing concept are the successful ones. Basically everyone has a place with establishing the brand - from the reeceptionist on up.

That said, I believe in that concept when it comes to college athletic teams. You're selling an experience and yes it helps when winning is part of that experience. But the marketing concept goes way beyond the guys at Prototype. They have built a recognizable and very hip looking logo. I think the logo is easily identified, is unique and incorporates the eagle and the flame in one logo. Not an easy task. I assume they are assisting in radio advertising, billboard development, etc. But there are more steps.

Even with regard to the uniforms - the new logo should have been incorporated on ALL of the uniforms this season. The SAME color blue should be used by each athletic team. I would recommend going to a more taditional uniform for football but once we establish it keep it for a while. Look at the number of helmet and designs Liberty has had since it started football. Tough to recognize them when you change it yearly. There needs to be a web strategy for our athletic teams. The football page stays stagnant for months at a time in the off-season - how about doing features on some of the teams/players past to create some traffic to the site?

I'd put that new logo on EVERYTHING - I would also be pushing Flames football and basketball packages as an ALTERNATIVE to UVa and VT. Those two schools are pricing their tickets to the point a guy like me with a wife and three kids under 4 can't go to the games. At VT they charge for anyone entering the stadium. You enter you have to have a ticket so if I took my 4 year old son and 2 year old daughter - that's $60 for the two just to get in the gate (I'll leave my 4 months old son at home for now thank you!). I can get 5 seats at LU for the season for about $300 bucks. I wonder how many folks in Lynchburg know that?

This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are opportunities to advance the program nationally through "Live From Liberty" and the Sky Angel satellite network. There are plenty of avenues to get the message out - we just need a brand strategy that incorporates numberous factors beyond a new logo.

We all hate the Lynchburg N&A but they are a necessary evil - you need the media to give exposure and they are our local outlet - we need to develop an integrated plan in the ADept to utilize the N&A to OUR advantage (i.e. accessibility of coaches and players, candidness, aggressive advertising). Unfortunately, being aloof or resistant to partnering with them is not a good move for LU.

When you struggle with tradition (and LU is still a relatively young school) you have to work at it. I bet many folks don't know about the 73/74/75 football teams, the treasure island flood, etc. use the website to get this out for national access. With regards to the web strategy there is a thing called "key word buys" that can drive people to your site increasing national exposure. The game day atmosphere needs to be evaluated. If we get a family to come over and fork out $50 to watch LU - what is the on the field product but in addition with is the ancillary product? Go to VT to a game now - not only is the team fun to watch - but the fans have traditions, the band plays tunes full of school pride and spirit - Hokie fans identify with this. LU can do the same or at least something similar. Take a clip of the fight song and post it on the website. Throw in a link on LU traditions. The issue as I see it is that some of these guys who play a role in our "game day" experience have been mailing it in for too long. They play a role in this too. Don't be afraid to check out how other schools do things and maybe adopt from some of the areas they do well.

The total marketing concept of selling the LU athletic experience. Can it be done?

[PittLU]

Sly - notice how all PA'ers think alike (PAmedic excluded - he is just crazy)

HarrisburgFlame (my brother to the East) - it is nice to hear someone in sales and marketing chime in on the marketing effort for LU. I have mentioned that several times in my posts - especially with the N&A which is I have to agree is a necessary evil.

[HarrisburgFlame]

thank you. I think a better effort with athletics might be what we need to get us to the goal Dr. Falwell laid out many years ago. Reaching people for Christ through athletics is the way - but until we get serious about getting a consistent message out from a brnading standpoint - we'll continue to struggle for recognition and thus struggle in accomplishing Dr. Falwell's mission!

[prototype]

Harrisburg - It's nice to know that there is someone out there that understands this.

Most people didn't understand the reason why we wanted to re-brand Athletics at LU. When we first started to research and explore designing a new Athletic logo, we got a few People that liked the old logo. That's were I stopped them, and would ask what logo are you talking about? Everyone would mention a different one - the one with the fire shooting out the back, the Eagle Head on top of the LU, the sparky character on the baseball caps, the academic seal, etc... What Liberty needed was to be consistent. You can't build a powerful brand if you have 15 different logos. We wanted something that if you saw the football logo or the track & field logo, you would immediately know that it was Liberty University. The stronger the Athletic Brand becomes the more power it becomes for all the different programs. When one team has a great year, where they get National exposure, it helps feed the other programs also. This only happens if the person watching knows that all these teams are connected to Liberty University.

We had the challenge of making a logo that everyone would love and embrace. One that invokes pride, so that fans, students, faculty and players would wear it around town and be proud. We have not had many complaints about the logo. A huge testimony for the logo was last year when we hosted the Big South Championship game, ESPN broke their normal policy, which if you know anything about ESPN's change policy for Logo submission - you would be impressed, and changed the logo out on site for that game because they thought it was a tremendous improvement and in the words of their producer, "increase the value of their production."

I did read on this site some people questioning the Eagle. That was a challenge - incorporating the Flames and an Eagle. I think we accomplished that without having a Eagle on Fire or just completely forget one of those two elements. The University has a traditional Mascot, but I respect that Liberty wants to mean more - and keeping their motto within Athletics - “Knowledge Aflame,” and evokes the University guiding philosophy — that knowledge has validity only when viewed in the light of Biblical Truth.

We are working on uniforms; unfortunately we are handcuffed on what we can do. Athletics Jerseys, other than Track and Cross Country, can not have a logo on the chest, but merely letters of the Liberty or Flames. You are allowed to place the logo on other parts of the uniform, such as shorts, hats, etc...

Believe me, we are and will continue to place the logo on everything we can to increase the Brand Image. The basketball court will be redone this summer, as well as the football field logo.

News & Advance - I completely agree with everything you both have said. I'm not sure if you have noticed, but the news & advance has been a lot more supportive this year of Liberty Athletics, sure there are hiccups here and there, but your going to get that in every market. We know that the News & Advance is a big player in this market and we have been working with them to try and make the relationship more of a partnership. Liberty is by the way the local Division 1 Program. Yes, we're not in the ACC, but most every program at Liberty is competitive. Other than football, our teams are pretty competitive - We have beaten a fair amount of ACC teams in the past.

[HarrisburgFlame]

I really enjoyed your post. Thank you for the insight. I am glad you all are working with the ADept to enhance their efforts. I'm a little over the top in that I believe in everyone buying in - all the parts work together. for what it's worth I think Prototype's contribution has been tremendous and I have heard nothing but good things about the logo.

[SCAR]

2 things: Going back through this post I saw someone mention Mike Tilley (Sly I think) Mike is working in the Atlanta area and still keeps in touch with our guys at the Flames Television Network. Secondly, I want to welcome Josh from Prototype to the board. I have taken the initiative of bringing several "important" people to this board even if they are not posting believe me they are hearing what we say. This is the internet so anything you write can potentially be read by the person you are talking about but we all know that. Hopefully Josh and some of the others will register and really get this thing moving in a good direction. It takes forever to catch up with all the posts now. This is pretty cool. I have a third thing. Josh I still owe you one for that chicken comment last night. ;D Although you did have the good sense to use me for voice over work for one of your clients so I guess I can forgive you. Seriously, you do good work and of course I may be a little biased because we go way back to the DC days when you were with the Wiz but the compliment is sincere.

[SCAR]

I must take credit with contributing to the Navy Blue move from Royal blue. When I played (86-90) we used to wear royal but we always asked for navy because it just looked cooler. After I left the coaches started ordering navy uniforms and that 94 team actually wore Navy in their 1st Big South Championship game. When I started coaching in the mid 90's coach Naz (Paul Nazigian) and I would order everything we had in Navy and encouraged other coaches to do the same. I remember some push back from Chuck Burch but you can't unring the bell. I am glad most everyone uses navy now because it is a stronger color......Prototype, I still say we should name the mascot SPARKY!!!!

[prototype]

Come on SCAR, you might as well name the mascot Cheesy and get it over with. Opposing fames would love that. Check out a Lee University game in Tennessee, they’re the Flames also and their mascot is Sparky - It's not the most intimidating mascot name.

[HarrisburgFlame]

just a suggestion on the re-painting of the floor in the Vines Center...

As I am sure you know, sometimes less is more - hopefully the floor design will have a crisp, simple, uncluttered look to it. You know the "classic" floors like Duke, UNC are plain. The new floor at VT is very simple and easy on the eye. The floor at Temple looks like an arcade game gone bad!!! Please don't do that to us!

Thanks!

[SCAR]

It is catchy though, like Sparty the Michigan State Mascot. He is not whimpy or cheesy but his name is catchy and fans love him....And there can be 2 sparkys out there! Come on Josh. No really I see your point.

[PAmedic]

LUPITT said:

Sly - notice how all PA'ers think alike (PAmedic excluded - he is just crazy)

thanks LUPitt, don't ever call 911 pal! I got some BIG needles in here w/ your name on them. Oh- and if I'm crazy what does that make ED (or ISHBOX for that matter)

KIDDING!

[aLUmnus]

You can ignore ishbox, for reasons unsaid.

And Harrisburgflame is right, PLEASE keep the floor simple. I think many of us remember the "mountain/flame/whateveritwas" thing, and if you never saw it, you're lucky. A clean court makes it look bigger on TV and easier to watch (and play on).

[PittLU]

Prototype - Sorry to keep coming back to Pitt, but the knock on their logo was that it wasnt crisp in a smaller form. How has the feedback been when you shrink the logo to put it on the pants or shirts? I freakin' love the new LU logo. The incorporation of flame and eagle is tremendous. It is good to hear that the branding is in good hands! HarrisburgFlame - we may just be OK.

Now........lets get to work on someone who can shed some light on the Flames Club........

[HarrisburgFlame]

Flames Club. I'm sure they'll redirect me to alumni affairs but I am interested in how we could go about setting up a Flames Club in the Northern Mid Atlantic area. I would think the Flames CLub could get mailing list through the alumni affairs office for a start - I saw where the Flames Club has an updated brochure - I wonder if they are planning to mail that to ALL of the alums. If you got enough interest then we could start breaking into individual chapters to promote Club activities and attendence might be the way to go.