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Post by bigsmooth on Jan 5, 2006 10:35:01 GMT -5
geez sly you are the ultilmate homer ;D the heisman talk is a moot point now. does one average game from reggie bush make him not worthy of the heisman?? if the referees made the call on vince young's knee being down we might not even be talking about a national championship by the horns. do not get me wrong vince is a great player and he proved it last night, it was the best single game performance by any college football player, but let's leave it at that. and you will not win the hoops title. mark it down now.
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Post by Sly Fox on Jan 5, 2006 10:41:00 GMT -5
I am unabashed homer as far as Vince is concerned. But an offensive player putting up big numbers in a league that plays no defense shouldn't get the nod over an equally impressive offensive player competing against the top defenses in the nation. That's just my opinion. I understand WHY Reggie won and he's a special athlete. But Vince should've won.
As for hoops, the odds are indeed stacked against the Longhorns. But there is enough talent on the 40 Acres to get it done. With all of the success around campus it has to be contagious.
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Post by Jacksparrow82 on Jan 5, 2006 11:23:09 GMT -5
There is no way Texas basketball is winning the championship this year. Im not a Duke fan but the trophy has already been shipped to Durham. Their just way to stacked. As for football, congrats to them. They deserve it even though I still think USC had more talent on the field than the horns, but Texas(pretty much Vince Young) wanted to win more. The question now is who will be #1 next year: Ohio st, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, FSU, Notre Dame, Florida?
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Post by PittLU on Jan 5, 2006 11:54:28 GMT -5
I have to say that last night I though the the better running back was White. I am hoping he comes out and the Stillers pick him up. He is a power runner (skinnier version of Bettis). This was the first game I saw Bush play and I was unimpressed.
As far as Young, I think he still needs some work on his arm because he wont be able to scramble around in the NFL the way he does in college (ala Mike Vick). The thing is though is he is a winner and leader - and those intagibles are priceless. I heard an interview earlier and Vince admitted he would need one more year to work on his passing. Of course, that may be moot since they are national champions and his stock is through the roof, but if the Heisman left that bad of a taste in his mouth, then you never know.....
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Post by LUconn on Jan 5, 2006 13:06:31 GMT -5
Why does everybody act like something that happened in the 2nd quarter would have decided the outcome? Even if the refs had called it it's not like they wouldn't have just scored on the next few plays anyway.
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ishbox
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Post by ishbox on Jan 5, 2006 13:28:39 GMT -5
I have to say that last night I though the the better running back was White. I am hoping he comes out and the Stillers pick him up. He is a power runner (skinnier version of Bettis). This was the first game I saw Bush play and I was unimpressed. As far as Young, I think he still needs some work on his arm because he wont be able to scramble around in the NFL the way he does in college (ala Mike Vick). The thing is though is he is a winner and leader - and those intagibles are priceless. I heard an interview earlier and Vince admitted he would need one more year to work on his passing. Of course, that may be moot since they are national champions and his stock is through the roof, but if the Heisman left that bad of a taste in his mouth, then you never know..... you can't just rely on one game before you say that lenale will be the better back... lendale white will be smashmouth and reggie will be such a huge threat on the outside its unbeleivable...he turned that 5 yd gain into a 20 yd td... taht being said i don't see reggie ever being a 30 carry back for some reason...unless he gets bigger...lendale will be... vince young is better than vick was....and i'm a huge vick fanatic...he might not be as flashy or exciting but i think he will probably be a better qb than vick in the nfl and sooner... with the plays that wr's break after the catch in the nfl, distance and arm strength isn't as important as everyone wants it to be... he has better vision than vick he has better accuracy than vick vick has better strength vick is the better athlete but we are finding out that that is only half the battle... vy's college stats dwarf vicks and i think he will flourish... after last night there isn't a doubt in my mind that he should come out this year...he just made lienart a #3 pick i think the texans should take young...hes a homer and will put buts in the seats and bring new life to that team... bush is a once in alifetime back but all "once in a lifetime" backs only have highlight reels in their trophy rooms...see barry sanders...
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Post by Supa J on Jan 5, 2006 13:35:23 GMT -5
I don't see Bush being a 30 carry back but he doesn't need to be. If you give him 15-20 carries out of the backfield and split him out another 10-15 plays, and let him return a kick or two and he'll be just fine.
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ishbox
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Post by ishbox on Jan 5, 2006 14:44:59 GMT -5
nobody uses a #1 draft pick on a rb who's only going to get 15-20 carries a game...unless they are morons...
he'll be good but i think he'll be a better kick returner than a full time rb...
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Post by LUconn on Jan 5, 2006 15:04:59 GMT -5
I don't think VY will do that well in the NFL. I'm a downer on mobile QBs though. The only argument people ever made for Vick was his "intangibles" that he "just wins games". Well guess what, his team hasn't won a whole lot lately. And it's because he's not a good QB. I havent seen much of Young, but he looks kinda slow. Well, not quick anyway. To me it seems like he covers a lot of ground with huge strides but he just runs people over. Which is cool but it doesn't go over well in the NFL. As for his arm, it looked good last night but most long balls he threw with any kind of touch looked wobbly and floating. And of course we've all heard about his odd mechanics which is the reason Kyle Boller is such a hunk of crap. Who knows though. QBs and DTs are a real gamble in the draft anyway. You never can tell.
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Post by Supa J on Jan 5, 2006 15:05:05 GMT -5
Nobody uses a #1 draft pick on a RB who's only going to get 15-20 carries a game...unless you can split him out wide and get another 60 yards out of him receiving.
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ishbox
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Post by ishbox on Jan 5, 2006 16:19:45 GMT -5
that really hasn't proven to work except for the eagles...and it isn't winning them any championships...and these are nfl corners and nickelbacks we are talking about not mamby pamby college dbs...
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ishbox
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Post by ishbox on Jan 5, 2006 16:21:06 GMT -5
don't get me wrong though i think bush is a sure fire #1/2 pick but that pick is based soley on the fact that he could be an every down back...not a certain thing...
white may very well be the better back of those 2...not the best runner but the better pure back..
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Post by Supa J on Jan 5, 2006 17:36:58 GMT -5
That hasn't worked? Ever heard of a guy named Marshall Faulk or Priest Holmes?
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Post by flamesfan710 on Jan 5, 2006 17:39:39 GMT -5
A couple things:
1. I will admit Keith Jackson is very much a pro-Pac 10 announcer (I mean he has been calling those games for the last few years now exclusively) but he is a great broadcaster. I mean he is one of the guys that I draw a lot from in my quest to become a broadcaster. I do hope he retires for good soon though and give some of the younger guys a chance to really shine.
2. With Reggie Bush, he seems to me like he could be what Brian Westbrook is for Philadelphia (when he isn't whining about his contract only slightly less often than TO did and getting injured at inopportune moments). He will give the Texans a versatility that they did not have with someone like Domanick Davis (who I will readily admit is a good back so Sly don't be thinkin Im hatin on your boys down there in Houston). 3. I think the reason Michael Vick is struggling now is that Mora is trying to turn him into something that he isnt: a stand in the pocket passer. I think that he should be allowed to drop back, survey the field and use his legs to create opportunities for his receivers. That is also what I think should be done for Vince Young wherever he lands should he come out this year. Young reminds me a lot more of Byron Leftwich than Michael Vick and he could really make some noise under the right system.
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Post by Supa J on Jan 5, 2006 18:01:30 GMT -5
Oh man, let me find what Bill Simmons said today about Keith Jackson. He has a pretty funny article about the game last night. Click here to read it.
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Post by flamesfan710 on Jan 5, 2006 18:24:02 GMT -5
"yes there were some missed calls"
I will admit that they missed it on that crazy TD involving Young and the RB (his knee was down before he got the lateral off) but that should not detract from the fact that You had one of the greatest individual performances I have ever seen
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ishbox
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Post by ishbox on Jan 6, 2006 13:57:48 GMT -5
That hasn't worked? Ever heard of a guy named Marshall Faulk or Priest Holmes? being that for some reason i lived in illinois but was inundated with kc and stl games my entire life, priest rarely lined up as a wr....faulk did occasionally (maybe 25% of his catches)....not near as much as bush did... priest had one of the best o-lines in football as well as faulk....bush won't have one of those for a while... what has priest holmes won by the way....faulk is one of the greatest rbs of all time, bush can't touch his jock..... no ones going to spread their star rb out that much...its too obvious....the iggles had to, the rest of their wr crew as we've seen this year is turdsville... this guy deserved the heisman at the time....and is a highlight reel....but if this guy is going to get killed in the nfl if he doesn't bulk up like caddy this offseason.... you also have to take into effect that this guy had the absolute best of the best around him....now hes goign to a team where he won't be.... i say the same for white too....that line was sick...and hes an upright through the hole runner....hes going to have to learn to get low in the nfl.... a guy at work today said that if he could choose between ladanian or bush he would take bush..what a lunatic i'd love bush to be the greatest ever because he has a great demeanor, like a marshall faulk...i see alot of mistakes in this kids future before he reaches stardom...plus hes had so much hype guys will be looking to murder him in the next few years...
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ishbox
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Post by ishbox on Jan 6, 2006 13:58:32 GMT -5
oh and bill simmons article is one of the best i've read in a long time....
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ishbox
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Post by ishbox on Jan 6, 2006 14:08:04 GMT -5
3. I think the reason Michael Vick is struggling now is that Mora is trying to turn him into something that he isnt: a stand in the pocket passer. I think that he should be allowed to drop back, survey the field and use his legs to create opportunities for his receivers. That is also what I think should be done for Vince Young wherever he lands should he come out this year. Young reminds me a lot more of Byron Leftwich than Michael Vick and he could really make some noise under the right system. byron leftwich??? byron has never been a rushing qb...3 sneak tds his last yaer at marshall... young is a slightly slower, weaker armed, sharper visioned michael vick.... and mora wasn't trying to change the way vick was playing...i think it had more to do witht eh qb coach trying to do it....in serveral mora interviews hes stated that he has to let vick run...vick just has to be smart about getting out of bounce or sliding... if vick can find a balance between throwing and running then the rest of the nfl better watch out... a 300 yd passer 30 yd rushing vick isn't scary a 140 yd passer 100 yd rushing vick is a bit scarier but not as scary as.... a 220 yd passer 75 yd rushing vick is scary if his wr's can emerge or they pick up a decent one i think we'll see vick become what is expected of him...price isn't a good wr....he was good becasue of the system...
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Post by PittLU on Jan 6, 2006 14:38:31 GMT -5
Young to Houston is crazy. David Carr has a similar if not better 40 time, and will be an effective qb if he gets some freakin protection. Carr has the correct mechanics and poise to lead that team. VY is a great COLLEGE quarterback. He has to work on his passing to be a bonafide NFL qb. Dan Patrik had Bill Cowher on and Cowher mentioned that VY had the intagibles to be a star (charisma, likeability, the way people respond to him) with which I agree. As far as pure talent, he needs work on being a true qb who can win games with his arm and not just his legs.
To me - Vick is a punk (no offense ishbox). If he was a true leader, he wouldnt whine to the media. He would shut up and produce. So what if the media debates about how good of a qb you are! Just go out and win. When you do that - you silence the critics. If Mora is trying to make him become a pocket passer - dont complain to the media, complain to the GM and ask for a trade. A writer for the Atlanta paper can't help Vick at all. Do you really think that Mora is that much of a moron to change Vick into something he isnt? If Vick isnt the right fit, the right thing to do is for both of them to part company. It will be an ugly situation, but the media cant expedite it - just spin the whole thing to make Vick look like the moron!
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ishbox
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Post by ishbox on Jan 6, 2006 15:18:29 GMT -5
hes complained like what twice?
all the guy does when he's on the field is win....the falcons have a .612 record when hes on the field and a .214 when hes not....plus hes only 25...this guy still has plenty of time to mature into a solid qb...
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ishbox
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Post by ishbox on Jan 6, 2006 15:20:37 GMT -5
....if, of course, he doesn't get killed by TB linebackers before then
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Post by Sly Fox on Jan 6, 2006 22:45:11 GMT -5
First off, where are you from Ishbox? You sound like you're from where I graduated high school. Although I admit I hated living in Illinois.
As for Vince's decision, its gotten much tougher. He was going to come back based on my information from VERY reliable sources before the Rose Bowl. He has been informed that he probably wouldn't go Top-5 and he desperately wants one of those cool bronze trophies they hand out each December in Manhattan. But his stock has gone through the roof because of Pasadena. And he would be silly not to take a second glance at where he stands.
As for the Texans, they are now in quite a quandry. Before the Rose Bowl they were working on two options ... taking Reggie Bush with the #1 Pick or trading the pick in order to get multiple players to fill out there holes all over the lineup. Now in the midst of interviewing head coaching candidates (expect a Kirk Ferentz hire by Tuesday if things go as expected) they face a multitude of questions.
They have until March to decide if they are going to give David Carr an 8-million dollar option for three more years. If they decide not to offer it to him, Carr immediately becomes a free agent where he could command bigtime bucks from franchises starving for a talented (albeit battered & bruised) QB. So now if Vince does decide to enter the Draft, they find themselves essentially deciding between a backfield of Carr/Bush or Young/Davis. Both are terrific options. But they both have huge ramifications. The Texans has invested heavily in Carr making him the face of the franchise. They've endured his growing pains and they believe he's on the verge of having a breakout season if they can protect him. With Young, they have a hometown hero who could probably handle the pressure better with his feet than Carr. And Vince is easily the #1 sports icon right now in his hometown of Houston. If they pass on Young they will have to endure years of grief if Vince is picked by someone and else and becomes a star. Bush could be the next great RB of the NFL ... but despite his injury problems Domanick Davis is already one of the better backs in the league. If DD can stay healthy for an entire season behind an upgraded O-line, he could be one of the most productive backs period.
Bottom line, the Texans secretly hope Vince sticks around for his senior season in Austin. That way they don't have to make the tough choice. And based on the history of UT kids under Mack Brown, the odds are that he will stay. Ricky Williams, Leonard Davis, Quentin Jammer & Derrick Johnson all returned for their senior season despite being projected as Top-5 overall picks. In fact, Mack hasn't lost ONE player early to the draft since arriving in Austin eight seasons ago. And its not for lack of talent.
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Post by flamesfan710 on Jan 8, 2006 23:01:55 GMT -5
Well the Texans said they would pick up Bush and David Carr's $8M option and VInce declared and according to ESPN will probably go to the Titans at 3 to learn under McNair and maybe challenge Volek for the backup job
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Post by Sly Fox on Jan 9, 2006 0:03:47 GMT -5
The pressure is going to be intense on the Texans to use the first pick on Vince. Its already boiling over here in Houston. Frankly, I doubt Vince falls to #2. The Saints likely will take Vince at #2 if he's available. Never underestimate the power of a Texan who owns a football team like Benson.
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Post by givemethemic on Jan 9, 2006 0:25:41 GMT -5
Re: BCS Championship « Reply #4 on Dec 29, 2005, 11:08am » I said it back in June and I will say it again, Hook em baby, USC is finally going to be beaten. Texas 41 USC 38. MVP Vince Young.
Bottom line is this after 5 days NOBODY has given me props for picking the exact score and the MVP. I must say that I am very proud of myself.
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Post by PAmedic on Jan 9, 2006 7:59:39 GMT -5
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Post by PAmedic on Jan 9, 2006 8:01:28 GMT -5
the NFL is going to be quite an adjustment. Take the money and run- the signing bonus alone will be more than most people earn in a lifetime. Like I said, its all about the benjamins, just hope you don't get hurt until you come back and finish that degree.
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Post by PittLU on Jan 9, 2006 9:01:40 GMT -5
Well Sly - let the quandry begin. People in Pittsburgh still talk about passing on Dan Marino for some no-namer who was cut like two years later. These personnel decisioins make or break careers and can affect franchises for years to come. The safe option is Carr/Bush & Davis. The fans option is Young/Davis, but remember, fans arent GM's. Being removed from the situation and the emotion, I think Carr/Bush is much more favorable than taking your lumps with a new qb. I mean the Texans have taken their lumps (literally) to get Carr to where he is - standing on the brink of a breakout season. I think folding under the intense fan pressure for a hometown boy could set the franchise back another 5 years IMHO.
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Post by bigsmooth on Jan 9, 2006 21:08:25 GMT -5
it does not matter if they have carr or bush. until the texas get some o-line help they will continue to struggle. i can see taking young...filling reliant stadium, jersey sales etc., and besides domanick davis is a quality back, but bush looks to be a cant miss pick. let the guessing games begin!
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