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Post by thesportscritic on Dec 18, 2005 18:06:01 GMT -5
I agree with everything that El Scorcho, thelaxman, and HMO says about paying people for what they are worth. Thinking inside the box and not outside the box then one will think small for the rest of their life. If the athletic department wants to grow then it is time to get out of our comfort zone. It is time for LU athletics to rise up now and it looks like we could be heading in the right direction. Still need an AD first though.
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Post by thelaxman on Dec 18, 2005 18:11:04 GMT -5
 Good points Thesportscritic. It can be done. So let's step up to the plate and build something really great in LU Athletics.
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Post by PAmedic on Dec 18, 2005 18:41:57 GMT -5
don't forget that we actually DO have an AD, though he is technically "interim".
I am hearing that we may stay with Mickey for a while now until the circumstances are right for a new hire- IE: we find the right person.
It would be DIASTEROUS to "settle" for someone in the interests of wrapping up the search quickly. As Coach Westfall said (to paraphrase) "if we're going to do it, do it right."
we need to find the right person, no matter if it takes a while or not, and spend the money to keep him/her here.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 18, 2005 18:44:12 GMT -5
Also I can attest to his first hand. If Liberty had taken care of Club Sports like they plan to now with a Charter Bus or commercial Transportation. My Family and myself would not have went through so much pain in that crazy accident in Alabama. Because they were cheap it almost cost the lives of everyone on that trip including mine and the lives of my two Sons. There is a human cost when you don't take care of the flock and your operation. If you want to be a first class operation then you need to pay for it and not be so cheap. The University does not give hardly anything to Club sports in funds to run things. Almost all Universities have budgets between $3000 Dollars -$15000 Dollars with School funds to cover basic needs like transportation for Club Sports. Liberty gives nothing. Hockey does make money on ticket sales at the Arena they play at. But Lacrosse does not charge for Williams Stadium so you run your program on Player dues and putting your hand out for freebies. I will say that Dr. Falwell did make several donations to the Team out of his own pocket but you can't run a nationally ranked Athletic program like that or you will have a disaster. If it were not for the grace of God I would not be here today. I have a few negative feelings about LU over this but for the most part I'm moving on and I'm focused on getting my health back. But if Liberty is going to talk big they better step up to the plate or get out of the way because they are going to get run over by the competition. You can't be cheap when building a first class organization. Thelaxman Again, as many have said on this board what happened is aweful and I will never forget the call I got from my mother while I was on spring break, but 2nd guessing I dont believe to be the answer, as we all know, if you and I both believed it to be as big of a risk as it was then I dont beleive you would not have taken your team there...and you knew the budget when you accpeted the job...I will never put down a Club coach b/c I know everything you give up to do it, but i dont know if 2nd guessing is the answer either...I'm not quite sure where the blame for this goes but I think it's better to leave it alone rather then putting it on the shoulders of the school or yourself |
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Post by thesportscritic on Dec 18, 2005 18:59:51 GMT -5
Alright PAmedic I guess an official AD.
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Post by thelaxman on Dec 18, 2005 19:23:51 GMT -5
HMO:
When you have to deal with it all like I have there are no questions in my mind about who is to blame. They wanted all the glory for the program but they were not willing to pay for it. I did my best for the University and I would do it again if the University supported it like they should. But high was the price my Family has paid along with my health.
We made that trip with the believe we were being safe but the truth is when you have to travel over 200 miles for games you really should have commercial transportation. I have learned that from this accident. I will never ever travel that distance without commercial transportation with a College Sports program. If the school really cared they would have looked out for us in the beginning and it would have not come to this. But notice this, I announced I would step down from the job after the season because of the accident and what my Family went through. You have no clue what my family and myself have been through because of this accident. Now I will live with the health issues for a life time. Again I'm moving on in my Life and I'm regaining some of my health slowly but surely but those are the facts. I will always support LU as an Alumni but there was a huge price my Family has given for me Coaching at a school that really did not care about Club sports.
It took that accident to get the School to make the right decisions to look out for transportation for Club sports and make the right decision to protect Club programs while they travel representing Liberty University. I guess that is a good thing and a step in the right direction.
But Club sports is just one example of the University being cheap on stuff. There are other areas they have made mistakes on and they need to step up to the plate if they are for real about becoming a first rate Athletic Department. This would include paying top Dollar for a first rate AD.
Thelaxman
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Post by SCAR on Dec 18, 2005 23:32:27 GMT -5
I have to chime in on this paying thing. The truth is I have to agree with coach Westfall on everything he has said. You can't have it both ways if you are Liberty. I don't think he is saying they were the cause of the accident but perhaps it would not have taken such a heavy toll if they had proper transportation which they clearly can afford these days. Liberty is thriving. I say it every day that this is not the same school I attended. It is like night and day. Just like coach Westfall I support Liberty because I am an alumnus and I love the school and what it stands for. I love this athletic program as well. Faculty and staff at LU have paid the price and laid the foundation for what they have today and now it is time to open up the checkbook. I would love to be a full time employee at Liberty someday soon but I don't know if it will ever happen because they don't have a clue about how much to pay a person competitively. I can work 6 months in Richmond and DC out of the year and probably make more than most at LU due to my experience and expertise as a Project Manager in corporate America. Not saying this to toot my own horn (and we all know how fun that can be - Dave Letterman joke :-)) but just that I have offered my services to the athletic department on several occassions and would be willing to make a fraction of what I am worth because I believe in the cause but it has not happened. The truth is for TV games me and Ray Jones make the same money as everyone else on the crew. I don't think that happens in any other professional TV environment. Could they afford to pay us more? Sure. Am I complaining? Not really, because I love doing it and to reiterate I want to see this athletic dept be successful and providing insite on the TV games is my way of contributing. My point is that if Liberty wants to be a big time organization they have to pay people and hold people accountable as a large corporation does. I have seen large corporations first hand at mid to upper level management and Liberty does not resemble that environment at all. But there is still time to change the culture and as someone said (El Scorcho I think) Liberty is starting to change the pay scale.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 19, 2005 1:59:11 GMT -5
I have to chime in on this paying thing. The truth is I have to agree with coach Westfall on everything he has said. You can't have it both ways if you are Liberty. I don't think he is saying they were the cause of the accident but perhaps it would not have taken such a heavy toll if they had proper transportation which they clearly can afford these days. Liberty is thriving. I say it every day that this is not the same school I attended. It is like night and day. Just like coach Westfall I support Liberty because I am an alumnus and I love the school and what it stands for. I love this athletic program as well. Faculty and staff at LU have paid the price and laid the foundation for what they have today and now it is time to open up the checkbook. I would love to be a full time employee at Liberty someday soon but I don't know if it will ever happen because they don't have a clue about how much to pay a person competitively. I can work 6 months in Richmond and DC out of the year and probably make more than most at LU due to my experience and expertise as a Project Manager in corporate America. Not saying this to toot my own horn (and we all know how fun that can be - Dave Letterman joke :-)) but just that I have offered my services to the athletic department on several occassions and would be willing to make a fraction of what I am worth because I believe in the cause but it has not happened. The truth is for TV games me and Ray Jones make the same money as everyone else on the crew. I don't think that happens in any other professional TV environment. Could they afford to pay us more? Sure. Am I complaining? Not really, because I love doing it and to reiterate I want to see this athletic dept be successful and providing insite on the TV games is my way of contributing. My point is that if Liberty wants to be a big time organization they have to pay people and hold people accountable as a large corporation does. I have seen large corporations first hand at mid to upper level management and Liberty does not resemble that environment at all. But there is still time to change the culture and as someone said (El Scorcho I think) Liberty is starting to change the pay scale. And while I understand and agree with the majority of this & while it seems like LU athletics is thriving it's actually losing 8-13 MILLION bucks a year...I know that a loss is normal in D1 Athletics although I believe this needs to get under better control before Club sports are to be looked after like they should, but then again when your losing that kind of money what's another 10-20k |
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Post by guest on Dec 19, 2005 11:15:39 GMT -5
Who was driving the vans?
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Post by PittLU on Dec 19, 2005 12:19:19 GMT -5
From working in sports, I know that 300 miles constitutes flying for any sports team. Under 300 is usually a charter or in Coach Westfall's case - vans. I know from experience that vans are used for any type of organization traveling to represent LU. The vans are comporable transportation to smaller DI and DII, DIII schools.
As far as paying the major salaries, this is where Dr. Falwell's vision meets reality. Either you attempt to build that vision off mid-level talent or you recruit big time talent and ask potential donors to open up their checkbooks. I feel that LU has been stuck with middle of the road talent for years - especially in football. You can argue Coach Sam, but I think that he was underpaid and performed accordingly because that was his "ministry". Let us not demean what a ministry is, but I agree with Scar that we need to re-organize like a business.
That is my major problems with non-profits or ministries. They are not run like a business, but more of a "do what you can". I hate that attitude. There are very few self motivated people out there. Everyone needs something to motivate them. In our society, money is one common motivator. I know when I received my new position with a double in salary, It put my feet to the fire. If they hired me at half of what I was worth and told me to "do what I can" or "here is my vision" with no true blueprint - I wouldnt be as successful as I am. If we dont re-organize and seperate the ministry with the organization - we will never be a true DI powerhouse.
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Post by PAmedic on Dec 19, 2005 14:05:54 GMT -5
good post but I'm still thrown by your "crazy" new screen name.
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Post by thelaxman on Dec 19, 2005 15:50:29 GMT -5
I was driving the lead Van that was hit in the rear by the second Van who was driven by Lacrosse Player Fred Lee.
I'm just thankful to be alive but if I Coach again I will never drive with a program more then 200 Miles.
Liberty just needs to make sure that all programs have what they need when they represent Liberty University on the road. If we want to be a first Class University the cost is worth it in developing our programs.
Thelaxman
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Post by flameshaw on Dec 19, 2005 17:45:35 GMT -5
I agree with all of the above. However, I would like to challenge all of us, who obviuosly care about the school and athletic program to support it financially. Some can do more than others, but we can all do some.
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Post by JF on Dec 20, 2005 17:21:32 GMT -5
As far as the money thing goes, if you can't be comfortable in Lynchburg, with 100-200K somethings wrong. Money is a little too important. Liberty "should" be able to hire an outstanding Christian and a great coach w/ that kind of dough.
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Post by PAmedic on Dec 20, 2005 17:43:52 GMT -5
I got bills too ya know! 100K oughta about cover it.
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Post by El Scorcho on Dec 20, 2005 19:47:26 GMT -5
As far if you can't be comfortable in Lynchburg, with 100-200K somethings wrong. Seriously. You can only go to Movies 10 but so many times in one week. And um, last I knew eating at the Texas Inn still wasn't that pricey. ;D |
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Post by Sly Fox on Dec 20, 2005 23:26:14 GMT -5
Texas Inn? Color me interested. ;D
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