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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 9, 2005 18:52:10 GMT -5
Say it isnt so that Hubbard sent a petition around VIA email to get his job back at LU....if he's such a good coach and academic adviser then there should be plenty of offers and openings that should entice him...I wish he wouldnt have gone this route...they were going to pay him for another 6 months until he could find something else....I wonder if they'll still pay him now....i doubt it, and I cant blame them
Anyone who saw the email please post what all it included, I'm having it emailed to me later tonite
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Post by baldspot on Dec 9, 2005 19:35:14 GMT -5
Sounds like a meltdown. With due condolences to the families of those involved because it is never an easy thing, athletics, however, is an industry where mobility is a must. Hubbard has already worked at several institutions and will probably work at seveal more. Sly works in an industry that is much the same in this regard. Sam R used to say the NFL stands for Not For Long. Time for Hubbard to move on. Jerry wants to move to D1A status and people with DIII backgrounds just won't get it done.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 9, 2005 19:55:06 GMT -5
nicely put
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Post by Sly Fox on Dec 9, 2005 19:56:47 GMT -5
Let's hope this is just a rumor. I'd hope he wouldn't go this route. Its not becoming for him or the school. I can understand him not wanting to leave the school he's called home for quite some time. But if he's being taken care of through the remainder of the school year he should capitalize on this severance and spend the time lining up another position. Having been let go a year and a half ago in a layoff, I can attest to the fact that looking back never is beneficial. The sooner you beginning working toward the future the better.
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Post by Guessing on Dec 10, 2005 3:38:28 GMT -5
... the petition was just for the tennis side of things. It sounds like they may be pretty good this year.
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Post by Guessing on Dec 10, 2005 3:39:16 GMT -5
... the petition was just for the tennis side of things. It sounds like they may be pretty good this year. Guessing, I should say...
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 10, 2005 11:55:08 GMT -5
Tennis or not I wish he wouldnt have gone to this level...when is the last coach you know fired and then begging to get back....Man, just sit back and collect your checks until you find something else....and this year is to little to late as far as I'm concerned with their previous record
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Post by thelaxman on Dec 11, 2005 1:05:06 GMT -5
I don't think it is so. But Larry is currently in Miami and I plan on contacting him tomorrow about something else and I just may ask him.
Listen, Larry Hubbard does not need Liberty University. I say this as an Alumni first, Liberty needs Larry more then Larry needs Liberty. The Guy Coached on the NCAA Div 1 level which you forgot to mention. UMBC where he was an Assistant Lacrosse Coach in the early 80's is now and was at the time one of the top 10 Division 1 Lacrosse programs in the Country. Lynchburg College where he was a Head Coach is now one of the top ten Division 3 Lacrosse programs in the Country and he was the Guy that did that work. On top of that Larry was a starter for the University of Maryland who won the NCAA Division 1 National Championship in Lacrosse in 1973. So the Guy has accomplished a lot in the NCAA Division 1 arena. A lot more then some of the people who currently walk the halls of the LU Athletic Department.
What I know is Larry had a lot of nice things to say about Liberty University and his time there. He did not have any negative things to say at all about his firing.
So I kind of feel you guys don't know what you are talking about. I e-mailed Larry today about another matter and he told me he was in Miami. He also said he was heading to North Carolina after he was done there. Maybe he is looking at some different positions in College Athletics around the Country or maybe he is taking a good vacation with his Family that is well deserved after dealing with Liberty University. But at any rate I hope to speak with him in the next day or so.
So enough on Coach Hubbard. Unless you got some hard facts please watch what you say. This guy really treated me good when I coached at Liberty and if you got anything negative to say about him I will fire back at you and rock your world. I know Coach Hubbard very well and he really is a great person and one of the finest Men of God I have ever meet.
Thelaxman
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 11, 2005 1:38:21 GMT -5
I don't think it is so. But Larry is currently in Miami and I plan on contacting him tomorrow about something else and I just may ask him. Listen, Larry Hubbard does not need Liberty University. I say this as an Alumni first, Liberty needs Larry more then Larry needs Liberty. The Guy Coached on the NCAA Div 1 level which you forgot to mention. UMBC where he was an Assistant Lacrosse Coach in the early 80's is now and was at the time one of the top 10 Division 1 Lacrosse programs in the Country. Lynchburg College where he was a Head Coach is now one of the top ten Division 3 Lacrosse programs in the Country and he was the Guy that did that work. On top of that Larry was a starter for the University of Maryland who won the NCAA Division 1 National Championship in Lacrosse in 1973. So the Guy has accomplished a lot in the NCAA Division 1 arena. A lot more then some of the people who currently walk the halls of the LU Athletic Department. What I know is Larry had a lot of nice things to say about Liberty University and his time there. He did not have any negative things to say at all about his firing. So I kind of feel you guys don't know what you are talking about. I e-mailed Larry today about another matter and he told me he was in Miami. He also said he was heading to North Carolina after he was done there. Maybe he is looking at some different positions in College Athletics around the Country or maybe he is taking a good vacation with his Family that is well deserved after dealing with Liberty University. But at any rate I hope to speak with him in the next day or so. So enough on Coach Hubbard. Unless you got some hard facts please watch what you say. This guy really treated me good when I coached at Liberty and if you got anything negative to say about him I will fire back at you and rock your world. I know Coach Hubbard very well and he really is a great person and one of the finest Men of God I have ever meet. Thelaxman I got the email man...honestly, your being a loyal friend which everyone would love to have, I just wish he'd help you out a little more, it seems like your looking after him and he's not even looking after himself by doing something like this...it just sucks that it had to come to this
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Post by thelaxman on Dec 11, 2005 1:58:01 GMT -5
OK, well if that is true then you can't blame the Guy on that. I do know that Larry really loved playing and Coaching Tennis and it was a good change from Lacrosse. So maybe it was something he wanted to hold on too since he really enjoyed his time on staff at Liberty University. Who knows? I will ask him about this stuff when I speak with him in the next day or so.
It is not that he has kept something from me. It is just we don't discuss these kind of matters. I also try not to get that personal with Larry because that really is his business not mine. But I do know that Liberty would benefit by keeping him as the Tennis Coach for at least this year. A lot of the Latin Players that are on the Team he spent a lot of time recruiting them so maybe he wants to see if they really can beat Winthrop this year and win the Big South. You can't blame him for wanting to stay and see if all his hard work can pay off.
Anyway just my opinion.
Thelaxman
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Post by baldspot on Dec 11, 2005 7:59:03 GMT -5
Larry Hubbard has never worked as an AD or Asst AD at any D1 program prior to coming to LU. He's never had to deal with the budgets, the media etc of someone in a like position in the ACC, Big Ten, etc. He was also never a head coach of a D1 program prior to coming to LU and was only at UMBC for several months in a lesser role. His resume is filled with positions at local middle schools and girls scholastic programs. Maybe its just me but that's not exactly where we want to go with our athletic department.
If we have to explain why the email showed he is not ready for the big time, then maybe we should just leave it at that.
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Post by thelaxman on Dec 11, 2005 8:51:27 GMT -5
I think people at LU are reaching any way with this push to be some big time Division 1 powerhouse. It is good to have vision and goals. But you need to take one step at a time and honor GOD in what you do. The way this all has went down is questionable at best in my mind. I never said he was an AD at a Division 1 School. But he does have the experience and is competent for those roles at LU.
I will always hold my opinion that he is too good for Liberty anyway. I do know he really likes Liberty and may have some feelings to stay for a while with the Tennis Team as the coach and that maybe because he thinks this season will bear some fruit from his labor. I can't knock him for that if it was true. At this point I'm only speculating and it is not fair to go any further on the subject.
I just know when I started helping the Lacrosse Team at Liberty in 2002 nobody and I mean nobody would help me out. Student Affairs and the Ed Barnhouse with Intramural Sports were a complete waste of time. But Larry was there and worked hard to get the Lacrosse Team what they needed. Once the program started being ranked as a top Team in the Country then it got Dr. Falwell's attention and Dr. Falwell was a huge help to the program.
I have said my peace and I have no more to say. I just believe in my opinion that LU loses a great member of their staff and a great Coach. Maybe he is a better coach then an AD. Who knows but I believe this whole deal stinks.
Thelaxman
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Post by eddantes on Dec 17, 2005 9:52:16 GMT -5
Tennis or not I wish he wouldnt have gone to this level...when is the last coach you know fired and then begging to get back.... Coach Hankinson was planning on calling his lawyer and suing Liberty after getting canned for yet-another pitiful season.
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Post by krh44 on Dec 17, 2005 10:06:26 GMT -5
LU should have sued Hankinson if anything!
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 17, 2005 11:26:08 GMT -5
Tennis or not I wish he wouldnt have gone to this level...when is the last coach you know fired and then begging to get back.... Coach Hankinson was planning on calling his lawyer and suing Liberty after getting canned for yet-another pitiful season. That was b/c our AD at the time put a note on his desk saying he doesnt have a job any more (I must say it wasnt a highlight in the LU admin.)
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A.G.
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by A.G. on Dec 17, 2005 16:21:10 GMT -5
That is a classic example of the AD at LU being nothing more than a foot soldier. Graham had no choice other than doing something like that, because the decision to hire and announce Coach Dunton had already been made--and Mel was not returning any phone calls. MEL was making himself scarce since he saw the writing on the wall. MEL was the one not showing any class in the deal. At least Karcher handled himself with great dignanty in his dismissal.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 17, 2005 19:06:56 GMT -5
That is a classic example of the AD at LU being nothing more than a foot soldier. Graham had no choice other than doing something like that, because the decision to hire and announce Coach Dunton had already been made--and Mel was not returning any phone calls. MEL was making himself scarce since he saw the writing on the wall. MEL was the one not showing any class in the deal. At least Karcher handled himself with great dignanty in his dismissal. That is true, and a tough situation...I know he wasnt returning phone calls...it's just a tough situation... as far as Karcher goes I'd agree with you up until the last week when he blamed a few of his players for costing him his job....thats the only time he didnt handle himself with the class we were used to seeing during his 6 years
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Post by Sly Fox on Dec 17, 2005 21:21:16 GMT -5
I'm sure that was simply frustration talking. We've all said things we've regretted during tough times.
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fsn32
Full Member
www.FlamesSports.com
Posts: 122
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Post by fsn32 on Dec 17, 2005 21:37:31 GMT -5
I certainly wouldn't put one or two statements ahead of six years of good Christian testimony.
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Post by The Truth on Dec 17, 2005 21:40:36 GMT -5
Coach Hankinson was planning on calling his lawyer and suing Liberty after getting canned for yet-another pitiful season. That was b/c our AD at the time put a note on his desk saying he doesnt have a job any more (I must say it wasnt a highlight in the LU admin.) You obviously have a bias against and dislike of Kim Graham, and you are entitled to your opinion. Although, I doubt you will find many people who agree with you. As far as Hubbard, the funny thing is that everyone is forgetting that even Randy Dunton did something similar. When he wasn't retained after his interim year (basically fired) he threw a fit and went to the paper in order to get what was a token interview by the selection committee. He didn't want to leave either... so if we are going to throw Hubbard under the bus for his actions, then we need to do the same for others... although I get a feeling you won't do that. I also imagine that there will be attacks directed at this post. It's funny how some people can get bashed and no one cares (people even attack the people who defend their friends.) Then someone says something about someone else, and all the sudden it's considered gratuitous and there are threats to silence the poster.
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Post by PAmedic on Dec 17, 2005 22:04:27 GMT -5
not to beat a dead horse, TRUTH, but it may have something to do with the fact that the guys posting this time are REGISTERED- known to each other- and given a little more latitude than "fly-by" guest posters.
Not insinuating that you do <or> don't have a good point.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 17, 2005 22:52:35 GMT -5
didnt mean to start all that, i ment to leave a positive message, when i said it was a tough situation i was saying that I really dont know what else he could have done...I agree, there wasn't much left to do after repeated phone calls....it just sucks thats the way he found out, but he chose that way by not returning calls
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Post by thelaxman on Dec 18, 2005 6:54:55 GMT -5
;D
Well Truth,
This Board is about being honest and we tell it the way it is. If you can't handle the fire get out of the Kitchen!
I still stand by my opinions of Coach Hubbard only because I know him on a personal level and have dealt with him directly when I was the Lacrosse Coach at Liberty. But Coach Hubbard has moved on so I need to move on and focus on supporting the University as an Alumni. I still believe Liberty lost a great Administrator and Coach.
On Kim Graham, I have dealt with him also directly and I don't have a very high opinion of him at all . According to you, he is some sort of great AD. He was not.
On Karcher, I dealt with him also because we used Williams Stadium for practice and games. He was a very nice Guy to work with. But for what ever reason he could not get the Football program going in the right direction. I also became good friends with Ed Gomes who was on Karcher's Staff. I hope Ed is still around.
On Hankinson, I was still the Head Lacrosse Coach at Winthrop when he coached the Basketball Team at Liberty. All I know is he was the worst Coach I have ever seen in any sport. It was embarrassing to come and watch Liberty play when they were playing Winthrop at the Winthrop Coliseum.
Now I'm sure Mr. Graham and Mr. Hankinson are good Guys and maybe true Men of God but neither impress me at what they get paid for in College Athletics.
OK, this thread is getting old.
Thelaxman
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 18, 2005 11:17:15 GMT -5
I think that is the biggest problem at LU, some people know they are under paid for their position therefore they can do less, I never have understood that mentality, as if someone is holding a gun to their head making them accept this money and stay at LU
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A.G.
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by A.G. on Dec 18, 2005 14:28:46 GMT -5
Don't you know that being underpaid is part of working as part of a Christian mission at LU--and most Christian schools?
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Post by El Scorcho on Dec 18, 2005 15:05:10 GMT -5
Don't you know that being underpaid is part of working as part of a Christian mission at LU--and most Christian schools? I'm a big fan of the statement "If it's Christian, it ought to be better." I think that applies to everything, especially organizations desiring to be competitive in every facet of their operations. I think that the Christian mission and "ministry" aspect of LU was a valid method for justifying underpaying people...in the early years. However, if they want to grow, just like in athletics, you have to pay people what they're worth. To hang on to the "But this is a ministry!" mentality for too long does two things, in my opinion: 1. It prevents the organization from growing as effectively as it could. Paying normal salaries for key positions does nothing but benefit the school in getting above average employees. 2. It makes the school look bad. As we've moved into the black over the last few years (and as we continue to grow) it becomes more and more obvious that there's money to be spread around. Bottom line: As much as it's Christ-like to sacrifice for the sake of the cause, it's just as Christ-like to take care of the flock. If they don't have to, families shouldn't be asked to sacrifice to work at LU. I'm obviously a big fan of athletics at the school, or I wouldn't be here, but it's a little frustrating to know that the school is operating in the black, losing several million a year on athletic endeavors and still asking people to work (and work hard) at 50% of the going rate for their position "for the sake of the ministry." Having said all of that, there have been some vast improvements in terms of pay for a lot of people over the last few years. It's a good start.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 18, 2005 16:45:13 GMT -5
Don't you know that being underpaid is part of working as part of a Christian mission at LU--and most Christian schools? If your going to accept less money b/c you feel like it's a ministry then doing half the job just negates any good you may have by your sacrificing It's all to often a cop out for a lot of people at LU...yes they do under pay some people, but what a lot of people dont know that there are people still on pay roll who retired about 10 years ago b/c everything they were willing to sacrifice during their career
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Post by thelaxman on Dec 18, 2005 17:45:35 GMT -5
;D
If you are going to be this big time Powerhouse Division 1 School in Athletics you have to pay the big bucks. Otherwise it is not going to happen. This is where we all have to be in reality with the Athletic Department. That does not mean we don't have Goals and Vision but we have to set realistic Goals and if we want to be more we better break out the Checkbook!
Thelaxman
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Dec 18, 2005 17:51:20 GMT -5
;D If you are going to be this big time Powerhouse Division 1 School in Athletics you have to pay the big bucks. Otherwise it is not going to happen. This is where we all have to be in reality with the Athletic Department. That does not mean we don't have Goals and Vision but we have to set realistic Goals and if we want to be more we better break out the Checkbook! Thelaxman That's why the first step of paying an AD anywhere from 100-200K is going to happen within the next few months...LU will reward those worth big money with big money...Art Williams checkbook is huge! Wouldnt mind getting my hands on it honestly
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Post by thelaxman on Dec 18, 2005 18:05:33 GMT -5
Also I can attest to his first hand. If Liberty had taken care of Club Sports like they plan to now with a Charter Bus or commercial Transportation. My Family and myself would not have went through so much pain in that crazy accident in Alabama. Because they were cheap it almost cost the lives of everyone on that trip including mine and the lives of my two Sons.
There is a human cost when you don't take care of the flock and your operation. If you want to be a first class operation then you need to pay for it and not be so cheap. The University does not give hardly anything to Club sports in funds to run things. Almost all Universities have budgets between $3000 Dollars -$15000 Dollars with School funds to cover basic needs like transportation for Club Sports. Liberty gives nothing. Hockey does make money on ticket sales at the Arena they play at. But Lacrosse does not charge for Williams Stadium so you run your program on Player dues and putting your hand out for freebies. I will say that Dr. Falwell did make several donations to the Team out of his own pocket but you can't run a nationally ranked Athletic program like that or you will have a disaster.
If it were not for the grace of God I would not be here today. I have a few negative feelings about LU over this but for the most part I'm moving on and I'm focused on getting my health back. But if Liberty is going to talk big they better step up to the plate or get out of the way because they are going to get run over by the competition. You can't be cheap when building a first class organization.
Thelaxman
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