Hey flameshaw!

[HarrisburgFlame]

First of all it's great having you here and we're glad to have an old-schooler in the mix (class of 76 right?). it seems we have a nice mix of mid to late 80's guys, 90's guys and current students on the board. Through sharing our experiences we can all get an appreciation for how the university has evolved over the years. That said, I am VERY interested to get your input on the early years. Maybe when you have the chance you could share some of your experiences from LU's infant years.

Thanks.

[flameshaw]

I will try to do that some time before the weekend is over. Times have certainly changed and I will be glad to share some of the experiences.

[HarrisburgFlame]

That would be great. Did you get your sign up info from the Flames Club yet?

[flameshaw]

No, I haven't.

[flameshaw]

Hflame,

I will share with you some info on the early years and if it is of enough interest, I will provide more.

Will start with the sports program and then speak to campus life a little later.

Football:
Began spring practice/tryouts in the spring of 73. I don't know that anyone knew they were going to reward scholarships based on the practices. Probably had 30-40 players who received some sort to schlorship help. Had a couple of good quality players that could probably play on todays team, but less than a handful.

Head coach was Rock Royer, who came to LU from the Naval Academy. He was the most dynamic man I have ever met in my life. Great motivator, Christian, coach and family man. Cared for his players. LU lost a real giant when he died in a plane crash during Thanksgiving holidays just weeks after our first full season.

John Cartwright- Full time seminary student, part-time coach. Played QB for Navy and broke most of Staubachs records ( I don't really know for sure, that was the rumor, no internet to check those things out back then. Come to think of it, they probably didn't even have computers back then). Great guy and a real witness for the Lord. Now pastoring in Philly. Could throw the ball and was bigger than 95% of our players. Became head coach the next year after Rock was killed.

Other coaches included Gaylord Davis (first AD at LU). Was from Ca. and came from a Christian HS out there somewhere. Had only coached 6 man football before LU.

Bob Bonheim, really a wrestling coach (a very good one), but knew next to nothing about football.
A couple of students who had played some football in the past (you couldn't tell it), and probably needed a little extra cash to live on.

Weight room consisted of one Universal machine set up in the student lounge (stretching to call it that), on Treasure Island. Anyone in school, could and did use the machine. Mostly to play on.
Locker room was your dorm room.
Showers were in the dorms as well.

Practice field was on the Island. Really just a plot of grass and they threw up some goal post or a goal post, (I think it was only on one end of the field because the dorms were at the other end).
Equpment wasn't bad for the day, it was all new of course and the practice jerseys matched, I think. Wash your own and one pair of shoes (Riddells, with rubber cleats, which we were not expecting), for the year.
Games were played at City Stadium with about 4-5K on hand for the first game.

LU kicked off to begin the game. Not once, not twice, but three times before we kicked one in bounds. We were down 28-0 at half time. Came out and tied the game 28 all late in the 4th. Other team scored and we lost. Can't remember the final. Played 6 games that year lost the first three, won the last three.

Traveled to the away games in one of the Eagle busses owned by the school. I believe the pre and post game meals consisited of whatever $2-$3 (provided by the school), could buy you at McDonalds or wherever Charlie the bus driver wanted to stop (usually where the driver got a free meal).
Have gone on a little long, I guess I got lost remembering the good old days. Can't remember much more of interest, (they say the mind is the second thing to go, first thing went a long time ago).
If you have anything specific you want to know, just ask. I will try to recall. Will talk about Basketball and Baseball later if there is any interest.
Go LU!!!!!!!

[HarrisburgFlame]

There is interest on my end! This is great stuff. This is the kind of stuff the Athletic Department should be pulling on to build a tradition. You guys paid the dues. I am fascinated by the stories. I would love to see someone do a series on the birth of the athletic program. Fill us in about anything you feel compelled to share. Two quick questions:

1. was the original helmet gold like the Green Bay Packers gold or Baylor/Notre Dame gold?
2. What year did the blue helmets with the big Flame logo (some say it looked like a tulip) first appear.

Thanks for taking time to recount some memories. Some of the best stuff I have read on here yet!

[PAmedic]

Thanks- and I feel younger already, considering I was only 3 at the time to which you refer!

Actually surprised to hear LU was THAT organized back then- how far we have come though. This is the stuff we need to hear about though, and somebody (H'burg I think?) was talking about a "history" page or radio show or something to educate TODAY's athletes and students about the heritage we were all part of.

thanks again FSHAW.

[bigsmooth]

incredible stuff flameshaw! it is great to hear the old stories! maybe you could do a weekly story on the beginnings of LU sports. i want to know more about the beginnings of the hoops program! you guys laid the foundation and im greatful!

[Sly Fox]

Ok, I'm always a sucker for these types of stories. Keep them coming, flameshaw. If for no other reason than to let these spoiled kids of today know how easy they have it now. (I'm starting to sound like my grandparents)

We hear names like Rock Royer and they mean absolutely nothing to most of us. Hearing who these men were and what they were like really adds some meaning to their legacy.

Just hearing what you mentioned about Rock, I think it would be extremely cool to have a big rock at the stadium in his honor. I could envision it being used any number of ways in an effort to build on the school's tradition.

[HarrisburgFlame]

Sly: Great point about Coach Royer. Here is the thing - we have a colorful history - not too many people know about it. Let's start making people aware of where we came from. Traditions just happen in most cases. That's been a beef on here - no tradition - so we name the gym a trendy little name, etc. That means nothing to me. However, remembering the man who started the football program - was called home - and left a mark on countless individuals for life - that is something I can get behind. I bet as more of these stories come out - you would see more and more history to build a tradition. Just my 2 cents.

Williams Stadium/Royer Field - what do you think?

[flameshaw]

OK, OK, you guys are working this old man overtime though. Glad you enjoy the stories about the old days.

First to answer your questions;

Re. Helmets- They were gold (Green Bay gold) with a green stipe down the middle with a white stripe on either side. Riddell helmets as I recall, really not bad at all. Uniforms were white pants with a gold jersey with green numbers. I recall only one jersey for home and away. Don't really know when the blue helmets with the Flame appeared, but believe it was 76.

For big smoothie here are some hoops memories.

I was not there for the first year of basketball. I know we went undefeated but don't know who we played or how many games. I think it was 10-11. Players on that team included Doug Denney, seminary student, Dave Sisson, still see him every year at some of the games, Butch Burnette, LCA grad in 71, Mike Grooms? Seminary student, not sure who else.

Coach was Dan Manley for the first couple of years at least. Maybe one assistant.

Second year we actually had some cheerleaders. (skirts were at the top of the knee in those days believe it or not). Travelled to many away games.

Home games the first year were played in the old LCA gym. Practices were held there as well after school, depending on the practice schedule of LCA and AWANAS on Wednesday nights.

Home games year two/three,? took place at the old Jefferson Forest High School gym. Players on that team included Doug Denney, Dave Sisson, George Sweet (yes that George Sweet), Brad Rose and maybe Ed Gomes. Ed might not have come in until year 3. I am a little fuzzy on that. The Original Fro: Willard Deshazor, great guy, wore an Afro, which was in at the time, but considered a moderate sign of rebellion during that era. Could tell that it caused some friction with the administration (who were mostly hard-core BJU grads at the time). but they were afraid to address it because he was black and there were no explicit rules that they could hang him for. It was great to watch. (his picture is still up in the Vines center for some type of AA team he made).
Had a recruit come in year two who was 7'1" and could NOT dunk the ball. He was the original "white man can't jump" guy. But as the old saying foes, you can't coach heighth. At least when he traveled with the team, everyone knew we were a basketball team. (If they came to watch him play, they wouldn't have guessed he had ever seen a bb game before).

Year two, travelled to play Tennessee Temple at their Thanksgiving Tournament. We lost to TT in the championchip game by just a couple of points (home cooking). Speaking of home cooking, we ate Thanksgiving dinner there and almost 100% of the team got food poisioning. It was not fun. I also think it was on purpose. Those fundy's had to do something to beat us.
The best part of the trip though was FLYING to the game. The team flew into Chatanooga in an old Convair turbo-prop plane that Jerry also used to tour the country in. For a second-tear Christian school, this was big stuff.
On the same trip, we played Covenant College. At the end of that game there was a little skirmish and some shoving, etc. because of a hard foul, committed at the buzzer, that was not called. I believe we lost by in point in the worst officiated game I have seen in any sport in any venue. You would have thought their students were officiating the game.

Have a few more stories, but the IT guy just came in my office and needs to work on the machine. This will also give me an opportunity to take some vitamins and Geritol and rest up so I can make the rest of the day. See ya soon.

[bigsmooth]

thanks flameshaw! so you played hoops??? did you play for dale gibson??? i do like the rock royer idea! we need to build traditions off the old schhol stuff that many do not know about. there is so much we can learn about the history of Liberty!

[Sly Fox]

Keep the stories coming, flameshaw. Believe it or not, I was following some of the old NCCAA action back in the '70s since Tennessee Temple was my parents' alma mater. I even used to go to basketball camp there in the Late '70s. I might add that I've eaten at that cafeteria and I'm not sure the food poisoning was intentional. That place was pretty bad everytime I ate there.

[flameshaw]

Smoothie,

No, I did not play hoops, but I did travel with the team for all of year two and went to every game at home for years, and still go to a few every year now, especially the ones at Coastal. I love to golf at Myrtle Beach. I think Gibson was an assistant for Dan Manley for a year or two before he became HC. He was the LCA coach the first year or so of the LU program. I do know him quite well.

[flameshaw]

IT man gave me back my machine.

I am happy to hear the comments regarding Rock Royer, and would love to see some tie in to tradition. Rock was a guy similar to Jerry from a personality perspective. Believe me when I tell you that if you had a chance to meet this guy just ONCE, you would NEVER forget him.

The entire football team went to his funeral at that big church in Hagerstown Md. I believe. There were people standing outside. It was truly one of the most remarkable services I have ever attended.

He told the story one time during football practice, when one of the RB's didn't score from the one yard line, that there was no excuse for not scoring from that close in. He recalled while coaching at another school the same thing happening. He dismissed the entire Offensive Line, took the ball from the QB and scored against the entire defense himself to show it could be done. He broke his leg, but he scored. This was validated by Coach Cartwright to be true.
Another thing he would do to put pressure on the kicker during practice was to have the OL turn around and face the kicker, the DL just to stand up and watch as well and have the FG kicker kick the ball with no rush, but everyone on both sides of the ball staring at him. You would be amazed at how this would work in the long run.
Very, very dynamic person.

[flameshaw]

Well, if you guys are not tired of hearing about ancient history, I will do a run down on the first couple of years of the baseball program later tonight or tomorrow and maybe recall some more about football and basketball. I have enjoyed the trip down memory lane. I can tell some good stories about student life as well if you wish. See ya soon.

[Sly Fox]

Those are awesome anecdotes. I like this Royer guy more with every story.

In addition to more on Rock, I'd be curious to how the student body and folks in Lynchburg reacted to having the football team arrive.

[HarrisburgFlame]

There was an article in the 1988 football media guide that had some stories told by a few of the original Flames. I'll post it here when I get the chance. flameshaw - I enjoyed reading the stories you posted. Keep them rolling in.

[flameshaw]

Sly,

The student body was pretty excited to have the f'ball team in town. This gave us a big leg up on LC, who was the only show in town back then. Most people not a part of the church or university did not think the school would be around too long anyway. In some ways, you really can't blame them. We had no dorms to speak of, no campus, kids living all over the town, school offices were in the little houses across the street from Thomas Rd. classes were held in the foyers of the church, stairwells and any nook and cranny they could find. Kids just showed up without even applying for school and signed up to go to classes, etc. Robbie Hieney and his friend Steve ?, riding all over town in a hearse, kids from Ca. walking around in an advanced state of culture shock. The only place to shop was a little strip center next to Glass called Pittman Plaza. Heck, there were only 35k people in the whole town then. What they could not measure was the pioneering spirit and vision of things yet to come that was present in the student body. The Rock, among others, epitomized this spirit.

Most of the people who supported the team were students and church members. Jerry threatened all of the church people with excommunication if they didn't show up at the game.
The towns people supported EC Glass football real heavy. It was not unusual to have City Satdium completely full for a Friday night game. Glass was a perennial powerhouse back then.
The media was pretty friendly as I remember. I think I have some articles from the N&A where they interviewed a couple of the coaches and the team captains prior to the first game. I know I still have a program from the first game ever in 73. I donated another copy to the football team a couple of years ago when they were looking for some things from the old days. Don't know what happened to it, hopefully it will find it's way to a special place for others to enjoy. Had some real funny stuff in that old program.

Well it is past this old man's bed time. More tomorrow. Go LU.

[PAmedic]

FSHAW- again, THANKS- great stuff. And we gotta meet up in Myrtle Beach for several rounds- I sometimes break 100 but can't get to the low 90s without unlimited mulligans. I'm like Mickelson w/ no game: left, left-er or WAYYYYYYY left.

*like the 19th hole though!

[Sly Fox]

That is outstanding, flameshaw. You really ought to scan the cover of the first program and post it here on the board.

Keep the stories coming.

[flameshaw]

Will now take a liitle time to talk about the baseball team. I am glad you guys are interested in hearing about the old days because it gives me an opportunity to reminise a little and try to remeber what I felt like at 20 years old.

First baseball team began play in Feb. 73. I believe the first game was against Va. Wesleyan and we won. Want to say we played about 20-25 games that year. Mostly against teams like Va. Wesleyan, Va. State, Ferrum, N.C. Wesleyan, a JC in the Hampton area, etc.
Practices were held at EC Glass. We scrimmaged with the EC Glass varsity team and LCA so we could use the field. Gaylord Davis was the first coach and also served as AD.

There were no scholarship players that I know of year one. Mostly just some guys that had played baseball in HS and had a love for the game. We were really not very good. Maybe one of the players could play today.

On road games, we would usually drive and come back the same day. When we did stay overnight it was at a nearby church, or even in private homes. The basketball team did the same thing. I only remember staying in a hotel once during the first two years of the program. Spent MANY a night sleeping on church pews. (Boy were they hard too).

Year two saw the arrival of Al Worthington as head coach. He brought a few guys with him that could play. Jeff Mincey was a catcher that had some relationship with Al. He was the catch and a darn good one. I believe he was signed by the Pirates after his playing days and played minor league ball for a couple of years. Had a couple of pitchers who could throw pretty hard. Richard Zazuetta was a good finess pitcher and was the best that we had.

Played better teams that year including SC. They were #2 in the country when we played them and of course we were humbled appropriately. Bobby Richardson was the coach at SC at the time. Got to meet him prior to the game. He gave us his testimony and really encouraged us to be good ambassadors for the school.

Practiced in the LCA gym year two until it became warm enough to go outside. Al constructed some mounds made out of plywood for the pitchers to practice on. Batting practice consisted of hitting little balls of white tape with a broom stick. Pretty interesting, but don't know if the results were measurable. Besides that we had to do something with the tape we had. We didn't have a trainer to tape our ankles, or anything else for that matter.

Practice that year was mostly at Miller Park. The field had rocks all over it and was a pony league field at that. Fences were probably 250 feet deep and many ball were sent flying over the fences into the adjoining traffic. I believe it made our already questionable defense even worse. You could see the guys playing for the bad hop we would good at Miller Park and niss the ball on good fields. Our home games were played at City Stadium which was real cool. Too bad we couldn't practice there.

Al was a great coach but even a better person. Here was a guy who played MLB and was the pitching coach for the Minnesota Twins when he came to LU. He was from Alabama and very much the southern gentlemen. Very humble and unassuming. Came to practice every day in a beat up old station wagon carrying the bases and equipment that we used for practice. Fun to be around and a great Christian. His first year we played the Lynchburg Twins (back then, they are the Hillcats now), in an exibition game. Al pitched for us and we were actually winning in the 4th or 5th inning when the rain came. After about an hour delay, we resumed play but Al was too stiff to pitch (he was in his late 40's then I think), so we had to throw one of our pitchers and we ended up losing a close one. I think I am correct in saying that Lyman Bostock was on that team. He played in the majors for the Twins later on and was tragically killed or committed suicide.

Well the old fingers are tired. If you have any specific questions, I will try to answer them. Thanks again for your interest. Go LU.

[HarrisburgFlame]

flameshaw:

Great read on the baseball team. LBC/LU has been very competitve on the D-I level and got to D-I pretty quickly. I remember watching Sid Bream and Lee Gutterman beat Franklin Stubbs and the Hokies at City Stadium early 80's I think. Coach W was an outstanding baseball coach. That probably had something to do with the quick rise.

[Sly Fox]

Once again, you bring more great insight into the development of the program. It may seem like a long time ago, but most schools have had no one alive for 50 years who remember how their programs began.

[HarrisburgFlame]

flameshaw:

first of all I am glad to hear Dr. Park called you and that you are going to re-up with the Flames Club. I spoke with Heather on Friday and they were putting together my packet to send up. She confirmed XXL for my golf shirt but if my wife has her way I'll be back to an XL before the season starts. She has gone on strike in the kitchen.

That said, I used to coach defensive backs at Bridgewater College. The DC at BC was a guy named John Spencer. Spence Dog used to be the head coach at BC back in your day. He told me that after LBC and BC played the LBC kids took off their helmets at the end of the game (when the teams went out to shake hands) and passed out Gospel tracts as they were shaking hands. I actually think that is pretty cool but I wanted to see if you could verify that this was the practice of the day.

Thanks!

[flameshaw]

I can verify that this was the practice encouraged by our coaches, especially Rock, and was a normal event after each game. I was not a real fan of it and did not participate, however we were not pressured to do so either.