|
Post by Sly Fox on Jul 23, 2005 7:39:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by HarrisburgFlame on Jul 23, 2005 7:41:28 GMT -5
Sly what are your thoughts on Jeff Meyer?
|
|
|
Post by Sly Fox on Jul 23, 2005 7:48:21 GMT -5
Jeff was an adequate coach for where our program was back in the day. I wish him nothing but the best for the future based on his fine reputation from most of his former players. Scar will certainly resound that sentiment.
I really worry about guilt by association for him as long as he is on Quin Snyder's staff. Nearly the entire college basketball world feels that guy is a sleazy scumball. Hopefully Jeff can emerge from that guy's rep at Mizzou to land another Division I head gig.
As for Mel, its MUCH tougher finding people rushing to his defense. And I'm sure there are a few who are smiling seeing that article above.
|
|
|
Post by HarrisburgFlame on Jul 23, 2005 7:52:00 GMT -5
I always liked Meyer. I think we were set back with the Dunton - Hankinson - Dunton period. I do think we need to give Randy a full opportunity to build this program. But I wonder sometimes had Meyer stayed if we would have had to deal with the valley we ran through a few years back.
|
|
|
Post by Stevev on Jul 23, 2005 9:06:38 GMT -5
Jeff Meyer was great back in his time. He left when the program was at its peak talent wise. Peter Aluma, Marcus White, Larry Jackson, and Walter Graham were a great combination. Unfortunately didn't get the recognition they deserved as a result of not winning the conference championship ( they choked vs chuck south). For the most part he was a consistent winner, and attendence at games increased big time in addition to being a very likeable personallity.
Concerning Mel Hankinson. He put too much enphasise on recruiting that he didn't coach. But his top recruits for the most part had academic trouble and most of them never played a game. His coaching style was suspect. Just a lot of organized chaos with no evident game plan. We just didn't have the athletes to cater to his coaching style.
We need to give coach Dunton an opportunity to work his way out of the recent bad news of some of his players leaving or getting kicked out. I am sure that he will give it his best effort. His coaching style reminds of Meyers in a way.
|
|
|
Post by Formerplayer on Jul 25, 2005 12:09:39 GMT -5
Jeff Meyer was great back in his time. He left when the program was at its peak talent wise. Peter Aluma, Marcus White, Larry Jackson, and Walter Graham were a great combination. Unfortunately didn't get the recognition they deserved as a result of not winning the conference championship ( they choked vs chuck south). For the most part he was a consistent winner, and attendence at games increased big time in addition to being a very likeable personallity. Concerning Mel Hankinson. He put too much enphasise on recruiting that he didn't coach. But his top recruits for the most part had academic trouble and most of them never played a game. His coaching style was suspect. Just a lot of organized chaos with no evident game plan. We just didn't have the athletes to cater to his coaching style. We need to give coach Dunton an opportunity to work his way out of the recent bad news of some of his players leaving or getting kicked out. I am sure that he will give it his best effort. His coaching style reminds of Meyers in a way. The athletes Mel brought in were overall more talented than the players Dunton has brought in. I do agree with your comment that the players he brought in didn't cater to HIS coaching style. You have to give him credit he was a hell of a recruiter he brought in some very good players, that athletically had no business stepping foot on LU's campus. I don't remember any of his top recruits having problems being eligible. Like every coach you get a player or two who has a hard time adjusting to the college life or a prop 48. Dunton just lost Elijah is he a bad coach for that? No.
|
|
|
Post by Formerplayer on Jul 25, 2005 12:11:04 GMT -5
I heard a while back that Mel was on the move to a D2 or NAIA school in Mississippi. Could be wrong though.
|
|
|
Post by Stevev on Jul 25, 2005 18:05:39 GMT -5
As far as players with eligibility problems under Hankinson the names that come to mind are Chip Richmond, Antonio Burke (which ended up at Memphis), JR Nicholas, LG Carter, James Profit, Maurice Watkins, and others that don't immediatly come to mind. It seems like every year we lost some of his top recruits. Maybe not all to academics but the end result was the same.
|
|
|
Post by Formerplayer on Jul 26, 2005 8:18:30 GMT -5
As far as players with eligibility problems under Hankinson the names that come to mind are Chip Richmond, Antonio Burke (which ended up at Memphis), JR Nicholas, LG Carter, James Profit, Maurice Watkins, and others that don't immediatly come to mind. It seems like every year we lost some of his top recruits. Maybe not all to academics but the end result was the same. True about the guys leaving, but Chip left because of personal reasons not academics. Antonio Burkes was a prop 48 and at the last minute he decided to go Juco (He made a great decision by doing so). JR was just a knuckle head just like Elijah. Mo Watkins hurt his knee during his senior season and was out for the remainder of the season. James Profit was a prop 48. LG was sent to prep school and after Mel was cut he decided to go else where. Same can be said about Dunton. Jeremy Monceaux left because of playing time issues. JR left because he didn't want to play for Dunton among other things. Torin Beeler left because he didn't want to play for Dunton. David Dees just left the program. Elijah got the boot. Harry Williams left the team mid season. That is the nature of the coaching business, players come and they go simple as that.
|
|
|
Post by Stevev on Jul 26, 2005 11:57:43 GMT -5
Thanks for information on these guys Formerplayer. The rumors that I heard early are somewhat different than what you presented but maybe you are a more reliable source. Since I am not directly involved with the program (just a booster) sometimes rumors are the only thing to go on aside from what is published on the web. Is LU that much tougher a school in academics and rules that it eliminates some borderline players or is that true everywhere else. I don't recall some of the local colleges loosing that many potentially good players.
|
|
|
Post by Sly Fox on Jul 26, 2005 13:17:43 GMT -5
There are standard qualifications that have to be met with the NCAA Clearinghouse no matter which school you go to. Some coaches take a chance on trying to get borderline guys in. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't.
|
|
|
Post by The Jacket on Sept 1, 2005 23:13:02 GMT -5
Any one know how many winning seasons Mel put on the board in his four year term @lu?
|
|
|
Post by LUconn on Sept 2, 2005 8:02:40 GMT -5
it's gotta be 0 but I don't know for sure. But in a school/league like ours you really have to ask the question of how many seasons with a winning record in league play.
|
|
|
Post by The Jacket on Sept 2, 2005 13:29:46 GMT -5
Any one know how many WINNING seasons Randy has put on the board in his four year term.
|
|
|
Post by LUconn on Sept 2, 2005 14:58:20 GMT -5
I'd guess that to be 0 too. But in a school/league like ours you really have to ask the question of how many seasons with a winning record in league play.
And that's 4.
|
|
grm
Full Member
Posts: 158
|
Post by grm on Sept 2, 2005 17:24:11 GMT -5
Yeah, and in that "interim" year they beat Virginia at their place.
|
|
|
Post by The Jacket on Sept 2, 2005 23:19:35 GMT -5
Good point on "a school/league like ours"; the school has 1 WINNING season in the past 8 years/the league is bottom 5 in the nation recently. Not necessrily "TOP 50" caliber though I read that is "the goal" for LU according to "the coach". My ? would be, how would "the coach" know what a "Top 50" program looks like, plays like, practices like, etc. (was it while playing @ BBC... or coaching @ marshaltown JC) What a ludicrous statement! I thought Liberty was a drug/alcohol free campus-------better check those bball offices. To make that statement someone may have busted the policy. Maybe he meant "Top 50%". ;D
|
|
|
Post by PAmedic on Sept 3, 2005 7:53:07 GMT -5
Maybe this should be in a thread called "guests who stop by and talk smack about our school but won't register cause its too easy to drop in and take pot shots"
BORING
|
|
grm
Full Member
Posts: 158
|
Post by grm on Sept 3, 2005 11:34:42 GMT -5
Jacket: I'll tell you this, Randy Dunton is a man of the strongest Christian character, and I'll stake my life on the fact that he's not doing drugs/alcohol in the office. Why don't you just mention who it is (was) who was doing the dirty deed in the BBall offices? If you're such an up-front, tell-it-like-it-is guy, then put the facts on the table. Your criticisms are of the staff, so one might assume your accusations are also against the staff. Let's see.... Last year.... Chuck? Steph? Bob? Those are the key guys, and they're all men of the highest character. I probably should have spoken as PAmedic, deferring to his good wisdom. You might be in your pig pen laughing your head (sic) off as you roll in the mud, knowing that you pulled our chain. Nevertheless, I respond, lest someone out there think you have even the slightest idea of what you're talking about.
As far as coach knowing about a big time program, maybe some of the guys Dunton hired can tell him. (You know enough about Dunton's resume - what about their's?) Try Alexis for openers. By the way, what's your resume read like? - not that you'd be honest about it.
Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
|
|
|
Post by Cavalier Hoopster on Sept 3, 2005 13:02:06 GMT -5
I agree Coaches Davis, Leary, Martin are men of high character and they are fine college bball coaches. What I KNOW is all three join the staff sharing the mission of the University and a vision for bball excellence. Following a transition season, then a championship season(03-04) and this past March a chaotic season, ALL three WANTED to leave the program. Two were fortunate to find employment elsewhere although they love Liberty and enjoyed the challenges of D1 competition. Having worked "INSIDE" the program for the past three years they could NOT with INTEGRITY stay @ LU. The Lack of DISCIPLINE, poor ORGANIZATION, ARROGANT ATTITUDE @ the top forced their premature departure.
|
|
grm
Full Member
Posts: 158
|
Post by grm on Sept 3, 2005 13:50:20 GMT -5
Hi Cav Hoopster,
Lack of discipline, poor organization, and an arrogant attitude are very broad and general terms, but none of them add up to the charges levied by Jacket. These things could be expanded to be issues of integrity, or possibly not. What is "arrogance" in a head coach? One man's confidence and determination could be another man's arrogance. All that is OK to me; and as far as the coaches, well, if they wanted to leave then they should have left. I still think the world (and more) of them, but the charges, as they were stated by Jacket, are ludicrous, and I am almost positive that Bob and Steph would say the same.
|
|
grm
Full Member
Posts: 158
|
Post by grm on Sept 3, 2005 14:30:37 GMT -5
Also, Chuck did not want to leave the program.
|
|
|
Post by Cavalier Hoopster on Sept 3, 2005 16:15:53 GMT -5
grm: This is NOT second or third hand info. Direct from the coaches themselves. Person to person. ALL Three WANTED to LEAVE and TWO were successful in there efforts. Coach Davis and Coach Leary DID say EXACTLY was was POSTED!!!! LACK OF DISCIPLINE>POOR ORGANIZATION>ATTITUDE OF ARROGANCE!! Two groups of people here: THE INFORMED and The UNIFORMED. The INFORMED just INFORMED the UNINFORMED!!!
|
|
|
Post by Sly Fox on Sept 3, 2005 16:30:37 GMT -5
Opinions are like ... well you understand the analogy. I'm sorry that Coach Dunton has allegedly created a negative persona with some around him. But I have a tough time listening to anonymous posters fly by and take personal shots against anyone whether they be a LU coach or anyone. Its classless and bad form.
If you have legitimate gripes about Dunton and feel as strongly about him as you appear to, be a man and register under your real name and then detail the allegations. If there are major problems that need to be addressed, then they will be taken directly to the men who are in authority over him.
Otherwise, you are coming across as a coward with an axe to grind. It may not be the case, but that is the appearance.
|
|
grm
Full Member
Posts: 158
|
Post by grm on Sept 3, 2005 18:07:24 GMT -5
Dear Cav,
If you re-read my post, what I said was that Jacket's accusations of drinking and drugs would almost certainly have been denied by Bob & Steph. Yes, they were at odds with coach on some things, and they have every right to their opinions, philosophies, and where they choose to coach and with whom. I have not personally asked them about these things, and I probably will not. I respect them, and like them.
You're being extremely presumtive and arrogent when you shout about how informed you are and how ignorant I am. That's ok, keep believing it if you so desire. You do insult Chuck by saying essentially that he remains only to keep his paycheck. Chuck is a bigger man than that. He and coach are friends and are on the same page.
|
|
|
Post by flameshaw on Sept 4, 2005 17:30:47 GMT -5
I cannot speak to the drug, alcohol thing. I can however say that after following the team for a very long time as a fan and attending many many games home and away, entertaining players in my home, etc. there is definitely something to the arrogance factor. I have been as close to an insider as any person, not on the team or staff, could be. In the earlier days of the program, it was quite common to interact with both coaches Meyers and Dunton. I was known to them by name and played golf with Randy several times. The moment we beat Campbell in N. Charleston for our first trip to the NCAA, Randy changed. All of a sudden he was a big guy and he was better than everyone else. I am not alone with my thoughts, there are others who used to have peer realtionships with Randy, worked camps together with him, etc. who noticed the same thing. Shortly after that, he began his campaign to oust Jeff and become HC. He went directly to Jerrry , while still working for Jeff, and tried to undermind his boss. I know many other things, but am not willing to out a former athletic official to make a further point. Bottom line, I do not think much of Dunton as a coach or human being, and know I am probably in the minority here. Regardless of my thoughts, opinions, I think it will be proven over time, that we will win a big game here and there, but Randy is not the person who will make us a perennial (sp?) power in the BS or take us to the next level. Time will tell, hope I am wrong.
|
|
grm
Full Member
Posts: 158
|
Post by grm on Sept 4, 2005 18:17:07 GMT -5
I am sure you are wrong, but at least you have expressed yourself in a reasonable manner, and have spoken clearly and concisely, and for that I voice my appreciation. This year should go a long way toward proving one of us right.
Thank you, & God bless
|
|
|
Post by FireHouseRocks on Sept 4, 2005 19:36:47 GMT -5
WOW...
As long as I have been around LU there have been emotions about our coaches and their win loss record but this is the first time I can recall it being such a heated discussion over a coaches character. Whether it is all true or not, this is a bad perception to have.
I don't get to interact a lot with the coaches so I am not an insider. The assistants always seemed very easy to talk to but Randy has never been overly friendly to me. But at the same time, he has never done anything negative toward me either. I just hate that, as a Liberty fan, there is even a need to have a discussion about this. I hope it's not as bad as some say and if it is, then I hope it gets better one way or another.
Wins and losses are a different story... but character should never be a question when it comes to Liberty.
|
|
|
Post by Sly Fox on Sept 4, 2005 21:03:42 GMT -5
I agree 100% with firehouserocks' comments. We shouldn't even be having this discussion. Who are we to judge a man's heart? But we certainly should be operating above reproach whenever possible.
That said, Dunton is our head coach and we need to support him regardless of our personal opinions of his personality. The position he holds merits the benefit of the doubt from me by itself. I don't believe anyone has suggested anything illegal or unethical has occurred ... just issues with personality. If that's the case, we probably just need to let this one run its course.
But we will not let this forum become a place for anonymous cheap shots at anyone.
|
|
|
Post by PAmedic on Sept 4, 2005 22:03:59 GMT -5
Having said that, you've gotta admit it explains why we are bleeding players, poss even one of the best we've had in years (Dees) - and assistants. And maybe our little place on the web is the only objective voice crying in the wilderness for our admin to hear.
|
|