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Post by bigsmooth on Sept 26, 2005 18:47:45 GMT -5
well i know i have been the one to say stay positive, but im now to the point that change has to happen. the proof is in the statistics...i always go to this to prove my point, so here it goes with a comparison of the other LU football coaches who have coached the same amount of games:
(through 5 full seasons and 4 games this year) sam rutigliano 32-26 overall, 4-8 vs. ranked teams tom dowling 24-29-2 overall 1-6-1 vs. ranked teams morgan hout 20-29-1 overall 1-8 vs. ranked teams KEN KARCHER 21-39 overall, 7-4 BSC, 0-8 vs. ranked teams
OTHER NOTES: -karcher has 6 non D-I wins so that win total is really 15 games. - 7 game losing streak dating back to part of the 02 and 03 season - 5 game losing streak dating back to part of the 01 and 02 season ***in fairness to karcher, dowling had a one 9, 5 and 4 game losing streak and hout had one 7 and 5 game losing streak*** - (2) 4 game losing streaks...rutigliano had (3) - (2) 4 game win streaks - attendance has fluctuated in the years karcher has been there
all im saying here is that karcher is the worst coach in school history. it seems like our recruiting has dropped off every year. i will see the VMI game this week in person so i can get a live, non-radio take on the carnage this year. i can only hope that dr. park and the other powers that be realize that this has to stop, and we need to get some positive momentum going. with a new football facility, and the university itself, there is no reason why we can't be in the hunt for BSC championships and I-AA playoff bids consistently.
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Post by HarrisburgFlame on Sept 26, 2005 20:25:38 GMT -5
smooth:
Good stuff there my man - being a media guide freak - I can appreciate your work! I just think the kids are losing confidence in the program. I coached some good teams and some not so good teams but the effort was often told in the score (obviously). My point is when you give up over 600 yards in two losses - get outscored 157-0 over a 3 game stretch - somebody mailed it in!
One more point on your original post - Morgan Hout endured a flood that washed out the program, survived the transition to I-AA, recruited lots of local kids, and was 8-3 in his final year laying the foundation for Coach Rut. His 20-29-1 record was actually an accomplishment considering the circumstances.
I am now like most on the board - the program has taken a huge step back under Coach Karcher. it's time.
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Post by Stevev on Sept 26, 2005 21:03:45 GMT -5
I agree and can relate to all of the above except with Karcher's recruiting class being poor this year. His recruiting class seemed to be great as far as 1AA recruiting classes go. The best that we have had in quit some time with a couple nationally ranked on a 1AA recruiting source. He has had numerous other great recruits in the past but most don't stay put. Could be players don't like him or playing in his system. Could be a personality flaw or something. No question about him being the worst coach. His wins are all against weak competition or teams with lossing records. Not only has he not had a quality win but has only come close ounce (Vs App State a few years back). The rest being blowouts. With that said I don't see much future in the program right now unless we get rid of Karcher. I guess last year was about the best he could possibly do. Hopefully the process has started.
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Post by eddantes on Sept 27, 2005 5:16:37 GMT -5
Great research... but please, enlight us if you would with this statistics:
Ken Karcher's record on the road...
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Post by eddantes on Sept 27, 2005 5:19:53 GMT -5
Just another thing... I think the #1 reason that points to how lousy of a coach Karcher is - is that the breaks never seem to go our way.
Look at the New York Yankees (who I hate). They can't get lucky everytime out in big games, but they seem to. It's because they have top talent and a great coach.
Look at Liberty. Everything seems to work against us. After every game, Karcher will always point to two or three things that just went the other way, but if it went our way, well, things would be different.
There have only been four times (that I can count) it's gone our way -- two years ago vs. VMI and Hofstra, and last year vs. Chattanooga and Gardner-Webb. Every other time, it went the other way...
It's coaching, man. The sooner this administration wises up, the better.
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Post by Stevev on Sept 27, 2005 8:33:41 GMT -5
eddantes Karcher's record on the road is a combined 4 wins and 25 losses. Here is the year by year breakout
2000 0-6 2001 1-6 Win vs Chuck South 2002 0-5 2003 1-5 Win vs Chuck South 2004 2-3 Wins vs Chuck south and VMI 2005 0-2 Losses by a combined score of 112-0
Wow, I guess we have Chuck south's number on the road don't we! VMI was 0-11 last year for you information. A majority of the losses were blowouts of course. Hope this helps a bit.
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Post by Stevev on Sept 27, 2005 8:39:46 GMT -5
Correction: Road record is 4 wins and 27 losses. Didn't include this year in the total number. sorry!
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Post by eddantes on Sept 27, 2005 9:35:25 GMT -5
didn't we have an away win against Norfolk State last year or two years ago?
4-27... Let's go Flames!
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Post by Stevev on Sept 27, 2005 9:45:42 GMT -5
No. We beat them at home 69-21 two years ago. The only time we beat them on the road was in the Sam Rutigliano era.
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Post by thelaxman on Sept 30, 2005 8:08:49 GMT -5
What the heck is Chuck South? I guess that is a Big South. If you don't respect the Big South Conference maybe once we get a new Coach we should petition the ACC.
If a new Coach is to come on in 2006 it will be a slow progression and will take time. For now support the Team you have and the Conference we are a member of.
The Laxman
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Post by PAmedic on Sept 30, 2005 8:19:00 GMT -5
no no, although we usually DO slam the BSOUTH conf!
they're talking about Charleston Southern University.
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Post by thelaxman on Sept 30, 2005 8:31:10 GMT -5
OK, Charlie South.
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Post by Sly Fox on Sept 30, 2005 9:25:36 GMT -5
When you're in the Big South, they aren't many schools we can give a hard time. Chuck South is the league's doormat who refuses to step up and go full-scholarship. They've been getting whipped by DII schools this season. At least when we're getting waxed its by quality opponents.
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 5, 2005 5:41:56 GMT -5
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Post by Stevev on Oct 5, 2005 7:38:18 GMT -5
I don't like what Jerry Falwell said in the article. It looks like he is content with a poor to mediocre football team to me. I don't know what the rest of you think about that. The quote that states "he can hopefully bring us back to prior years" doesn't show too much ambition if he is content to say that the 2 prior years teams were a success. It all seems to contradict what he stated back in the 80's about playing Notre Dame and so on. I know that Jerry Falway has stated in the past that is a sports fanatic. Then why the heck is he blinded by the fact the only reason for those 2 successful prior seasons were due to a weak late season schedule. In summary I would like to say that the article is nothing short of disappointing and a contradict to what was stated in the past. That is all I have to say about that.
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Post by thesportscritic on Oct 5, 2005 8:03:19 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly with you stevev. He is content with mediocrity to me. 6 seasons down the drain. I have already lost my temper with this team. This team is an embarrasment to division I-AA football, and it looks like Falwell doesn't even care.
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Post by Stevev on Oct 5, 2005 8:12:22 GMT -5
If Jerry Falwell doesn't care then who does? I can't explain how disappointed I really am with this whole mess. Unless Falwell is holding back his true opinions until after the season just to salvage what is left this season if there is anything left to salvage. I don't know.
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Post by thesportscritic on Oct 5, 2005 8:15:07 GMT -5
I hope he is holding back but the last few seasons Falwell has made this speech.
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 5, 2005 8:56:56 GMT -5
GUYS: read between the lines. This was no official committment - that was a PR move; hence my comment:
trust me- I have been in management for many years- a public vote of confidence is normally followed by
A. "resignation" B. the old "re-assignment to another position with the organization" <OR> C. outright termination.
(See: Kim Graham)
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Post by thesportscritic on Oct 5, 2005 9:08:46 GMT -5
i hope u r right. good point about Graham
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 5, 2005 9:11:50 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong- I'm not wishing ILL on anyone, a coach losing his job is a scary thing for wives/family, assistants/their families, etc.
I'm just saying don't get too caught up in PR type announcements- I'm sure the coaching staff doesn't bother paying attention to them either!
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Post by thesportscritic on Oct 5, 2005 9:17:24 GMT -5
True it is scary for the family. I never wish bad upon anybody not even my enemies. The situation with the Football team is just out of control and we will see if anything will be done about it soon.
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Post by Sly Fox on Oct 5, 2005 9:52:12 GMT -5
I agree with PAmedic ont his one (did I really just write that?). I immediately had the same thoughts when I read those comments. The fact Dr. J felt compelled to make the statement says volumes in and of itself.
I have to disagree with stevev ont his one. I took Falwell's comments about returning to stronger times as a clear indication that he was admitting we have a major problem. Often the school has simply brushed our woes under the rug. That was clear indication that these results AREN'T acceptible.
These seem to be setting the table for a change if something dramatic doesn't happen and soon.
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Post by eddantes on Oct 5, 2005 9:57:50 GMT -5
I don't understand this "vote of confidence" thing. Why would someone say that and the re-assign someone?
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Post by Sly Fox on Oct 5, 2005 10:07:19 GMT -5
The vote of confidence is usually given in order to give the coach in two things:
1. A warning that they are shaky ground from manager's perspective 2. One last chance to get their house in order
Its as common in sports as someone signing a contract and then reminding us all that "it's not about the money" when we all know it is.
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 5, 2005 10:49:42 GMT -5
SLY is dead-on with this. Its also very common in the business arena- a final warning, if you will. Gotta admit, I've done it numerous times- usually a predictable outcome.
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Post by thesportscritic on Oct 5, 2005 11:13:22 GMT -5
ok Sly Fox and PAmedic you both win. I believe you both being that both of you are reliable. Change needs to happen. I think we can agree on that.
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aLUmnus
Full Member
old school LU
Posts: 192
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Post by aLUmnus on Oct 5, 2005 12:37:28 GMT -5
What's with all the Chicken Little's on this board? Some of you guys are the epitomy of hyperbole. Falwell is content with mediocrity? That's one of the most ridiculous thoughts I've heard hear. He's not going to lambaste someone in public, especially a coach that's pretty much "his guy". Falwell is actually showing some patience here and is giving the program some time to right itself. Of course you can think that too many chances have been given, but sometimes that's better than jumping the gun like this school has done too many times in the past. The school is young, and so are many of it's programs, and there's a very high turnover rate within the entire institution, so learning from our mistakes is vital to making this thing work, and I think that's what Falwell's trying to do.
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Post by lufbfan3 on Oct 5, 2005 13:52:50 GMT -5
I think that 6 seasons is plenty of time to assess a coach. If we were a "big" team, think Notre Dame, Michigan(WHOO!), USC, you get the point--would they allow this kind of time? The answer is NO-they would have been out within the season! Think: Ty Willingham. He went 6-5 the year he got ousted, 21-15 record for the 3 years he was there. That's a winning record-but nothing spectacular.
I realize we've got a different situation than those teams, and we're not at their level of play--but if we're ever going to be-I believe we have to cut our losses. (literally and figuratively) I don't think it's jumping the gun to see the obvious-we're not being an effective team, period under Karcher. He's had ample time to turn it around, and I don't see that he has. Will I wait for a few more games and see what happens? Sure-do I think it will make a difference? No.
I think to say Jerry Falwell is content with mediocrity might be a slight exaggeration--I agree that he's giving a warning. If he were to ream Karcher out in the media-it would cause people to totally lose their confidence (Well, for those who still have some) in Karcher-I'm sure he wants to show a united front. I'm prett sure Karcher is aware of the delicate situation he's in (again), but I don't think that him getting blasted by Jerry in the public is necessary. I think everyone's clear on the situation without it being spelled out. Karcher's on thin ice.
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 5, 2005 14:47:21 GMT -5
I've decided rather then spending the rest of the season getting ulcers over the fate of Coach K and his staff, I'm just gonna support these guys by listening and joining the Flames Club.
We'll see what happens after the season- but I'll leave it at this; the betting $ is on the fact we will be reading a new bio while snow is still on the ground up here.
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