WOW. Where did the Hokie haters come from?

[HarrisburgFlame]

UVA guys running smack against Tech football? What metric can you use to prove UVA's superiority? Head-to-head in the series Tech leads. UVA won the first 9 games in the series before VT even had a full-time coach! Take out the first 9 UVA wins and the series is lopsided for Tech. Bowl appearances and wins - Tech leads. 2004 contest -Tech won. Outright ACC titles - Tech has one - UVA in 52 years of ACC play has one shared title!

As for my dear friend SlyFox - tech and Texas have met - once in the Sugar Bowl (28-10 Hokies). Maybe you selectively forgot that one :>).

As for overrated - not. What you have seen the last 15 years of college football is the effect of the 85 scholarship limit. Parity my brothers! Bama and UT and others can no longer sign 100 guys a year and stick them away in car washes until they are 30 years od and then bring them out for the Varsity!

Even if you are a Tech hater you have to give them props. My dad has been a season ticket holder at VT since 1966. Some would like you to believe they have always been bottom feeders until Michael Vick and that is simply not true and I can prove it if anyone wants to discuss this!

[Sly Fox]

How could I ever forget that New Year's Eve in New Orleans when it is revealed one of UT's starting corners is an imposter. The Ron McKelvey/Wilson story is one of the most incredible things I have ever witnessed inc overing sports. The fact that it was revealed just hours before kickoff couldn't have been more of a distraction. That said, VT won that game ten years ago. But times have changed int he past decade after Mack Brown realized the ACC was a waste of time and headed to football's promised land.

And it is true the 85-scholie limit has made a more level playing field. Mack used to tell us the same thing every Monday for his weekly news conference: "Its the P-word. Everybody knows about it but nobody wants to talk about it." To which the rest of us would joke that parity is the crutch of poor coaching.

Don't consider me in the Tech-hater class. They are definitely in the elite tier of that 2nd tier league. ;D

[HarrisburgFlame]

Good points Sly however - Texas seems to do less with more than any school in the country. I have no axe to grind with the Horns. I loved the old SWC. That football conference was fun!

[Sly Fox]

If by "less" you mean consistent Top10 finishes, you are absolutely correct. And the Horns will finally find a way to de-Stoops-ify the Sooners this October. Count on it.

[HarrisburgFlame]

Texas has finished in the top 10 3 times in the last four years. The same number of top 10 finishes since 1993. I guess what I meant by "less" is that for the last few years Texas gets the hype as national championship contenders only to get left at the alter. They just haven't been able to bust past OU. When you look at UT's football facilities and tradition you conclude that UT should win consistently. I looked at the Stattsen.com web site and since 1993 the final AP rankings look like this:

Year VT Texas
93 22 NR
94 NR 23
95 10 14
96 13 23
97 NR NR
98 23 NR
99 2 21
00 6 12
01 18 5
02 18 6
03 NR 12
04 10 5

Conference power is cylical anyway. Miami is one of the premiere programs in the country the last 25 years. So is FSU. Top to bottom the ACC is as good as any. VT has had very good football since 1993. The same can be said for (gulp) UVA. GT, NCSU, Maryland, even Wake have had their moments in recent years. I'm not buying a dominant super conference year in and year out. I think they are all pretty close and occasionally a dark horse team emerges to put a conference's power rating over the top. Look at the national champions since 1993:

1993 - FSU ACC
1994 - Nebraska Big12
1995 - Nebraska Big12
1996 - Florida SEC
1997 - Michigan Big10
1998 - Tennessee SEC
1999 - FSU ACC
2000 - Oklahoma Big12
2001 - Miami (BigEast) ACC
2002 - Ohio State Big10
2003 - LSU SEC
2004 - USC PAC10

So that's:

ACC - 3
Big10 - 2
Big12 - 3
SEC - 3
PAC 10 - 1

I guess that's what makes college football so much fun!

[PAmedic]

WE ARE > > PENN STATE > >!

GOOOO BIG BLUE!

[LUconn]

Don't you wish you can keep track of stats like national championships? Well you can't. Because there has never been one and I will continue to ignore college football in anything more than a game by game basis until we get a playoff.

[HarrisburgFlame]

You'll be ignoring for a long time then. I agree - I would love to see a playoff but it's not going to happen any time soon.

[LUeer]

I'm proud to be a Hokie hater. I'm a WVU fan from way back. I'll never forgive Tech for bailing on the Big East after proclaiming their undying loyalty. I personally hope they never win another game in anything. But that's just me. Not that I'm bitter or anything. And for the record, before Beamer Tech was a bottom feeder from way back.

[HarrisburgFlame]

Clueless post. No offense but the Eer fans have lost all sense of credibility and reality on this one. WVU was a bottom feeder in football before Nehlen. I remember quite a few 3 and 4 win teams coming to Blacksburg (I did like Danny Buggs though). Dooloey took Tech to 3 bowl games prior to Beamer and they are 31st all time in winning %. Bowden had a good team or two (1975). Frank Cignetti was awful - ended up at IUP. nehlen had some great teams and RR has done a super job. FYI - The BigEast fiasco was a fiasco - but WVU left Tech at the alter in 92 when it pledged to stand by Temple and VT for all sports inclusion then joined with RU and no VT.

What goes around comes around and I for one am glad VT won't die a slow death in the BigEast. VT has beaten WVU 8 out of the last 11 - it's time to move on. I wish we had kept you guys on the schedule though.

[HarrisburgFlame]

I take that back LUeer. Your post wasn't clueless. I responded before I had my coffee. I can understand you guys being upset. It's all in fun anyway. At least you and I can agree on the Flames!

[LUeer]

No problem HarrisburgFlame. You are right that WVU was miserable under Cignetti. Before that, though, we had some pretty good teams with Bowden, Carlen, etc. In the 50s we had our golden era with Sam Huff, etc. You guys were dominating the series until Rodriquez and now its been pretty even. It should be good game in Morgantown this year.

I understand why Va. Tech did what they did and honestly WVU would probably have done the same thing if given a chance. I just reserve the right to be unreasonably bitter, that's all.

[bigsmooth]

first let me say i respect what frank beamer has done at tech. he is an excellent coach and has brought the hokies into top-10 status. however the superiority thing between UVA is a joke. better overall slightly. yes, tech leads the series 44-37-5. their bowl record is 6-12, UVA is 6-9. and UVA has two ACC titles...who cares if they are shared or not!...does it diminish it no? it is a championship? yes. your arguements are crazy....it is like me throwing in that UVA has more players in the pros...does that make UVA better than tech....no. and it is true till beamer arrived tech football was nothing, no crowds, minimal student support. the same thing can be said about UVA before welsh arrived. and the arguement about the first eight games without a full-time coach is insane. their are no asterisks in the record book...BTW tech lost the first eight in the series. i applaud the hokies on their success, but please get your facts in order before running smack against UVA. and yes my father too is a hokie and a season ticket holder and he would even laugh at this post. your program is solid, but sustain 10 more years of that success, before you talk about how great the hokies are........SLY....uva and texas series tied 1-1. your boy james brown was rough!

[Sly Fox]

bigsmooth -- I was at the game at that dumpy little stadium in Charlottesville in '96. It rained like crazy the entire game and I couldn't keep any noted as a result (UVa' joke of a pressbox didn't have room for televsion people). The Barbers & Jamie Sharper embarassed the John Mackovic-led Horns. Thankfully, that Mack is long gone. Then it was Phil Dawson beating you guys down here on the 50-yarder as time expired in one of the best games I can remember. Those were fun. I kind of doubt they'll be meeting again anytime soon. But those two certainly were memorable.

[bigsmooth]

iwas at that game two, what a rainy night! and oh i hate phil dawson... wow that was a year UVA could have been real special! a one point loss to the horns, and a one point loss to michigan in the big house! that dumpy little stadium as you say is pretty darn nice now! you are just a ACC hater!! Im glad you guys got rid of the turf! and i hope you can finally beat OU this year.....congrats on the CWS title!

[Sly Fox]

Don't hate, congratulate. Seriously, Dawson is a great Christian guy who would've fit in great at Liberty. Instead, he's doing just fine earning NFL bank.

The football stadium at Texas has also undergone VAST improvements since UVa visited. It is now as nice as just about any other college stadium in the country. The best football stadium overall hands down sits right here in Houston. You guys saw it host the Super Bowl and I work in there all the time. The guy who runs Reliant Stadium operation is a Liberty alum BTW.

[bigsmooth]

reliant is a fine facility. saw the super bowl there! they put on a good show? do you know the name of the guy who runs reliant?

[Sly Fox]

His name is Barry Asimos. He did some work for the Redskins after graduating from LU. He came down here along with Charley Casserly when set up the staff for the Texans as an expansion franchise. I don't know the guy since he doesn't deal with the media.

[bigsmooth]

i had some classes with barry...quality guy who has represented LU well.

[bigsmooth]

i had some classes with barry. a quality guy who has represented LU well.

[HarrisburgFlame]

Big Smooth no offense my brother (because at least we like the Flames) but my post was loaded with facts. As for the OUTRIGHT ACC title - most Tech fans do care. It's actually pretty funny that in one year of ACC play Tech did something UVA has never done in 52 years - won an outright conference championship in football - fact. Head-tohead Tech leads - fact. I mentioned bowl appearances and Tech leads - fact. My point about the first 8 UVA wins in the late 1890's and early 1900's was a fact - VTA&M had no coach - fact. UVA won the first 8 games - fact. outside of those games Tech holds a 15 game edge -fact. Look at the series by decade:

1890's - Tech was 0-3 vs. UVA
1900's - Tech was 1-5 vs. UVA
No games played again until 1923
1920's - Tech was 5-3 vs. UVA
1930's - Tech was 6-1-3 vs. UVA
1940's - Tech was 1-6-1 vs. UVA
1950's - Tech was 7-3 vs. UVA
1960's - Tech was 5-2 vs. UVA
1970's - Tech was 5-4-1 vs. UVA
1980's - Tech was 6-4 vs. UVA
1990's - Tech was 5-5 vs. UVA (probation hurt us from late 80's)
2000's - Tech is 3-1 vs. UVA

So you're right - my dominating statement was a stretch. The only .500 or sub .500 decades head to head vs. UVA were the 1940's and .500 in the 1990's. I should have said - Tech has gotten the better of UVA by a slight margin over the years. Would you concede that? If not, let's stick to the Flames because we could beat this one to death until the cows come home.

[bigsmooth]

yeah truce is fine..... but you do not get it. i know you had some facts, but they were inaccurate. yes your program is better, but not dominating, and please stop with the no coach reference. tech fielded a team and got beat.........and by hokiesports.com no asterisks or mention of that, so let it go my man. i never said UVA was better, just the dominant theme is tired and used up my many hokies. you obviously do not make reference about how the program was really nothing before beamer.and of course your probation blast! why the inferiority complex, and having to prove your worth? typical hokie! j.k.! but that's OK. my information was factual too. im done with this topic. GO FLAMES!

[HarrisburgFlame]

Truce - but I do get it. How can you say I don't get it - I had accurate facts - they came from the UVA football media guide and I cross checked with the VT 2004 media guide. How can you say my facts aren't accurate - do I have to post a year by year breakdown and footnaote sources? I can! There is no asterisk behind Tech's first 8 losses I'll give you that. VT was on probation in 87, 88, and 89 and it took a while to get over that - fact. I did reference the program prior ot Beamer when I stated we were 31st overall in the history of college football in winning %. I also mentioned Bill Dooley had Tech in 3 bowls between 1980 and 1986. But I would admit the program has never been great and prior to Beamer nothing to get overly excited about. Still better than UVA's who was the poster child for futility in the 60's and most of the 70's. There is no inferiority complex because when it comes to debating VT and UVA in football there is nothing to have a complex about. Guess who the last 2 teams in college football to receive a bowl invitation were? UVA and finally Kansas State!

FYI - I coached 6 years of college football after college and had the opportunity to meet Georgre Welsh - very good man. I'm not to high on Groh - he talks much better than he coackes and he really hasn't been a winner anywhere. That said I am not arguing how "great" Tech is. They are solid and have a long way to go. That said, I am amazed at UVA's fans how they try to discount everything Tech has done (not saying you did). You said I don't get it - maybe that's what you meant because I don't get UVA fans running smack - what's the old saying "better to be a has been than a never was".

Anyway it was a fun debate. The problem with VT and UVA debates is you'll never get one to admit he or she is wrong. he when you present an open and shut case (joke) like I did based on accurate facts! The prosecution rests. Maybe we can agree on the Flames!

[Sly Fox]

If you guys have called a truce, I need to find Zack for a little Longhorn-Aggy smack to keep this thread alive. ;D

BTW, you have to limit this discussion to football because when it comes to academics and nearly every other sport the pompous Cavaliers have the advantage hands down. But I digress once again ....

[HarrisburgFlame]

Ouch. Academics I'll give you buth guess who leads the overall baseball series :>).

Aren't rivalries fun?

[aLUmnus]

It's not that anyone's hating on the ACC, they're just being honest about it. It's honestly not that good of a football conference. And you can't include any of Miami's past as ACC glory, that's a bit of a stretch. The ACC has been a one team league for as long as just about anyone can remember (sorry, Gtech had one good year). It's not a very competitive league and with the exeption of the top 3 teams (two of them being brand new to the league), not very enjoyable to watch (what style of football is the ACC known for?).

[HarrisburgFlame]

I would tend to agree with you post. I think adding Miami and Tech have given the ACC a real boost. I think the BigEast was much better than people thought. I believe VT's lack of success in the BigEast in 01,02, and 03 to ACC Champions in 2004 speaks to that point. I do feel now that you have 4 conferences that are clearly top tier - Big10, Big12, SEC, and ACC.

[bigsmooth]

harrisburg... final post. UVA has a better overall athletic program, see the sears directors cup standings, more overall national championships, and the academics....i rest my case. i did not want to bring that up, but you gave me no choice. you may lead the overall baseball series, but UVA has dominated recently, and the past 2 years gone to the NCAA tournament, who leads overall in basketball, soccer, etc. give it up your only calling card is football , so do not get too excited. you continue to make excuses about tech's troubles when they were on probation...again no asterisks in the records that they were on probation, if you were not good you were not good. period. and all your facts were not correct( ex: tech lost the first 8 not nine)you also like to toot your horn quite a bit. FYI, the fact you coached college football, has no relevance to this thread. does that make you a football guru? and who cares if UVA was one of the last teams to get a bowl invite. with that being said in tech's illustrious football program they have been to three more bowls that UVA.....cmon now...nice try! and you are entitled to your opinion on groh. i have no problem with beamer's coaching, but...no i will stop.

[HarrisburgFlame]

OK now you're taking it to a personal level. My comment about my coahing experience was only to let you know that through that vehicle I was able to meet GW. Sorry if you took it otherwise. That said, you can have the Sears Cup and all of the non-revenue sports - I don't care. As for academics, I didn't go to Tech or UVA - I assume you didn't either so that is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. The post was related to football and I tried to keep it to that. Probation hurts recruiting becuase you have less scholies to give. I know that from being a recruiter and unless you've been under a rock you would know that the effects of probation show themsevles well after the fact. I do not like the edge to you posts. Give it up - I was having fun and trying to share a few facts with you and it seems you're getting upset. As for Tech losing the first 8 that's what I said in my first post. If I mis-typed it somewhere else then I apologize. FYI - you still haven't provide ONE football related metric to argue your point for UVA football.

[HarrisburgFlame]

One more fact for you related to an earlier post you made. UVA did not let Tech in the ACC - the Virginia State Legislature did. Craig Littlepage fought the thing the entire way. I rest.