Letter to the AD (and back)

[eddantes]

I wrote a letter to the LU AD, asking if there was a way I could give money to Liberty without it going to the football program (as they were an embarrassment). He wrote back (although I edited my name out to maintain my identity....

"Thank you for your candid note. Building a winning football program within the Christian context is most challenging. [EdDantes], I coached against Bobby Bowden of F.S.U. in 1972-73 when the West Virginia fans wanted him fired. Now he is an national icon. May I ask you to introduce yourself to me sometime and we can discuss this topic if you wish to do that."

He then went on about the ways I could give money to LU... Here's what I wrote back:

"I appreciate your response. Just a little background information on myself - I graduated Liberty in '03, so we never had a chance to meet. While at Liberty, I was one of the biggest Flames supporters - I co-hosted a sports talk show on the campus station and I also was a sports editor for the school newspaper. I went to every football home game, and just about every basketball game (even during the year when our team was rated last in the nation in RPI). In short, I knew Flames sports inside and out - probably more so than 95 percent of the people on campus.

Your comparison of Bobby Bowden to Ken Karcher is fallacious. During Bowden's five seasons at West Virginia, he went 42-26, with only one losing season. In both '72 and '75, Bowden took his team to Bowl Games, and his squad was nationally ranked in '75. Frankly, if Coach Karcher had a record like that, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

When Karcher arrived in 2000, he did so with a vision - three recruiting classes and LU would be back on top, competing for a I-AA national championship. When I was on the campus radio station as Liberty was heading for a 2-9 season, I would cite Karcher's vision. After all, I believed in it. I'm the person who played created Liberty while playing college football for the XBox, so I could guide them to the top.

But he's headed up the program for six years, and LU has regressed. I could rattle off the statistics that you probably know all too well - one win over a .500 team during his tenure, no wins over top 25 I-AA schools, etc. And, like many fans, I'm wondering how much longer we have to put up with this.

I understand that we have to build within the context of a Christian organization. I suppose that's the reason why Coastal Carolina, who didn't even have a football program when I graduated in '03, has already leapfrogged us in terms of playing ability. And one day, I hope that every Christian high schooler in America would want to play for the Flames, not just those with I-AA talent. As it stands right now, we're having difficulty getting top Christian players from Lynchburg to join (the University of Pittsburgh has two LCA grads, including a running back that probably would have helped us amass more than -6 yards last week).

Lastly, because of your personalized e-mail, I will be contacting Mr. Good to inquire about joining Flames Club. I respect the fact that you replied, regret the fact that we didn't get a chance to work together in the past, and hope to meet you one day in the future.

As always, go Flames."

For the record, the number for LU donations is 434-582-2178 -- and contact Bob Good.

[PAmedic]

Nicely done ED- and I, too- appreciate the fact that the AD took the time to reply personally to you. That shows great character.

[grm]

That is good, and a great job by eddantes. I confess to not knowing enough about the football program, but six years is certainly a sufficient time block for an employer to be able to expect positive results. There is nothing unreasonable or unfair about that.

[thesportscritic]

Nice letter Eddantes. It is time for a change. 6 years and that coach has not done anything for this program. GET RID OF KARCHER ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!!!

[Stevev]

Very nice letter. I joined the Flames Club about 3 weeks ago and if I could have waited longer I would be doing the same thing about excluding the football team from getting any of my money since the football team is an embarrassement and a disgrace to the the university and Christian colleges in general. I gave to the general fund by the way so it looks like football unfortunately will get part of my money.

I have wrote similiar letters to Dr Borek (when he was at LU), Kim Graham, and yes Ken Karcher. Only Dr. Borek had the decency to send me a response back. It was a very nice and timely responce by the way. At least the new AD acknowedges your thoughts in a nice way.

[Sly Fox]

Dr. Park has respinded directly to all of my e-mails. Although I admit I haven't had the opportunity to correspond with him about the football situation. He seems like a man who is trying to show support for one of his men in the face of peril. That's admirable but he has to be considering other alternatives at the same time. Based on my perception of him, I'm sure that plan is already afoot to some extent.

[PAmedic]

Not that anyone suggested this, but I can't imagine that Dr. Park is still functioning as agent for Coach K, that would be a major conflict of interest.

Assuming he is NOT; that should ease the decision-making process a BIT.

[bigsmooth]

don't disrespect the "real" coach k, by calling our guy that. the real coach k resides in durham nc. just poking fun medic!

[rokamortis]

I understand that building a winning program is hard - under any circumstances but is really having a good team at a Christian school any different than at a military college, HBCU, or poor redneck school at the beach? Each school has their pros and cons and attract a unique student athlete. I'm kind of insulted actually - but have heard it from Patton and Mills as well.

FYI - one thing that Bennett has always said is that he is more interested in building quality young men than football players. That the priority of life is:
God
Family
School
Football

[Sly Fox]

I'm not sure what you could've taken as an insult, Rok. I think Ed was just using CCU as a point of reference. We've been playing football MUCH longer than you guys have and we don't have much to show for it.

It appears you guys really were fortunate to land Bennett to build your program. We had some coaches with similar qualities once upon a time. But it doesn't appear to be the case right now.

[PAmedic]

bigsmooth said:

don't disrespect the "real" coach k, by calling our guy that. the real coach k resides in durham nc. just poking fun medic!

I was waiting on one of you good'ol southern boys to call me on that. Took long enough!

And ROK, don't take offense (though to be honest- I'm not sure what EXACTLY was said that caused you to do so). The philosophy isn't that we have some superiority complex over "secular" institutions- its that, as Christians, we expect more of OURSELVES.
hope that made sense.

[rokamortis]

Not Ed - but the AD saying "Building a winning football program within the Christian context is most challenging".

Not like I am screaming from the rafters upset - but I don't think that should be an excuse. As a christian I take offense to it. I think the bottom line is that it is the institution that has to back the program and also it makes a difference that the coach you get is a winner. It isn't the type of school you have.

Coastal while having the beach has it's own disadvantages like not having an unlimited supply of donations and very, very young alumni. Those issues are 'most challenging' as well.

[Sly Fox]

The rules that we have at LU may it tough to get some players into our school. Its a fact we not only live with but alsotake pride in. I believe that's what he was saying. It wasn't meant as a slight on any other school.

And for the record, we began in 1971 and our alumni base is similarly young overall. So we're with you, brother.

[PAmedic]

Without presuming to speak for him, I have to think the AD is speaking to the tactics employed at SOME large institutions (think big-time D1 programs). I have ALWAYS said LU can NOT do what most teams NEED to do to be perennial contenders at the highest level. I think SLY put it best: D1 football corrupts an institution (something along those lines- I'm sure I will be corrected, but you know what I mean)

[rokamortis]

Again Sly - not taken as a swipe at CCU, just don't like using that LU is a Christian school as an excuse. I'm sure with the right staff that being a Christian institution wouldn't be such a detriment. I understand that you ahve challenges, but some would say that you have some great advantages over others as well.

[Sly Fox]

I agree wholeheartedly, rok. I have been a big proponent of us trying to use our distinctive nature as our greatest recruiting tool. Its paid some big dividends over the years for us in all sports. But I haven't seen that focus in recent years on anywhere near broad enough of a scale.

[rokamortis]

My alumni comment is mainly from the fact that although we are 50 years old we are only ~12 years old as an independant institution. many of our alums still feel they are USC and not CCU - which is technically correct but ask them how many classes they had in Columbia. We do have some older alums that are involved, but the majority don't seem to be too involved. Now the younger ones are better, but they aren't old enough to really contribute. Partner that with 50% out of state admission - that is another problem entirely.

[rokamortis]

pamedic said:

Without presuming to speak for him, I have to think the AD is speaking to the tactics employed at SOME large institutions (think big-time D1 programs). I have ALWAYS said LU can NOT do what most teams NEED to do to be perennial contenders at the highest level. I think SLY put it best: D1 football corrupts an institution (something along those lines- I'm sure I will be corrected, but you know what I mean)

PA - I understand but I think your biggest assett should be programs run in a Christian environment. Like sly said - they aren't focusing on that - but they should.

[Sly Fox]

We are at around 70% out-of-state ourselves. And most of those coming from outside the Commonwealth are coming a L O N G way. Both of our schools have faced more than our share of challenges. That's why I like that we are paired together trying to step up through the Division I kingdom. Unfortunately, our football team is helping matters.

[PAmedic]

ROK- you're absolutely right. We should OWN the christian HS scene. I bet the new AD has that in mind as well. Hope so , anyway.

[Stevev]

Does anyone out there have Mr. Good's EMail address since it is not in the athletic directory. I want to withdraw my money from the football program completely. Just want to make a statement to him in writing. Since he is the director of the Flames Club I can start with him. I would appreciate it.

[PAmedic]

PM EDDANTES or SCORCHO- they can fix anything. or maybe even SCAR

[PAmedic]

check that- I'm good too: pulled this off the Flames Club website.

Bob Good
Asst. Athletic Director/Development, Liberty University
Executive Director, Flames Club
[e-mail]

[Stevev]

Thank you PAMedic

[eddantes]

434-582-2178 -- Office of Flames Club (or something)

[HarrisburgFlame]

Stevev:

I understand your frustration - we are all frustrated - but I caution you about your apporach. If anything we need to step up our contributions to the football program. If for no other reason to get the FOC off the ground. I think the message of frustration will come through more clearly if football donations go WAY up this year. We can show we are a fan base commited to winning and expect revery *friendly* persons. We can prove that there is significant interest in Liberty football. If you want to attach a note, say something like "I doubled my contribution this year and I expect to see some positive results".

I gave to the Flames Club this year and gave it all to football - it's obvious they need it!

[Stevev]

I might reconsider or maybe I won't bring up the money thing since I didn't give that much. Just wanted to make a point and get some answers and get the admins insight on the matter. Of course I get a lot of it by reading all of these posts. I have E-Mailed John Borek (former president of the university) and he always gave me great responses. No reason why the athletic admin can't do the same. WhatI think needs to happen besides getting some big contributions, is for the students and fans to not show up for the games then admin would have to make a move based on the students best interest. I might think carefully on what to say if I do it but thanks for the information.

[HarrisburgFlame]

Stevev:

trust me my brother - I am every bit as frustrated as you. The last 3 weeks have been disappointing to say the least! I agree with your position that change needs to be made. I am just one who is shocked our Flames Club numbers and donations stink so bad. With the capital investment needed to construct football facilities - to get better players (and maybe even coaches) - we need all the guys like you we can get to step up and give money. The fact you give to football even though you are not satisfied with the coach speaks volumes to your commitment to the program.

[Sly Fox]

I think if you all feel as strongly as you appear to on this board, you need to let the administration and AD know your thoughts. An e-mail or phone call just takes a few minutes but it can help the powers that be understand your passion and mindset.

We've come a long way in the past year, but I seriously doubt those with the power to make moves are checking in here. So if the mountain won't come to Muhammad ...

[jimflamesfan]

Well, I wrote the AD as well. I am happy that he does resopnd. I guess I will have to call Bob and the chancellor as well...here was my letter (I omitted my name on this post as well)...

Hi,

My name is *jimflamesfan*. I am a LU and LBTS alumni. I was in the
marching band for two years (1997 and 1998), and I have went to almost
every football home game since the 1997 season (I may have missed about
5 total in the 8 years...and I've went to a couple of road games).

My parents were season ticket holders in 1997 and 1998, and I believe I
was a season ticket holder in 2000, if you can check that. I brought
about 16 people to the W&M game last year that I worked with, many had
never seen a LU game before (you can check the ticket office records),
but it was hard to generate excitement for the program as we got routed
something like 37-14. (Travis Johnson got two touchdowns at the end -
and now he's gone).

I also joined the Flames club this year. I respect the football coach,
Ken Karcher, as a person, and I believe the players are respectable.
But the performance on the field is terrible.

I am hoping that finding new direction for the football program (a new
coach) is a priority for you. The program is falling apart, it has gotten worse than
when I began when Sam Rutugliano was here (I don't think Stacy Nobles and Walt Heilig
may have been as good of running backs as Dre Barnes and Eugene Goodman,
but at least we won games).

Sincerely,
Jimflamesfan