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Post by flameshaw on Sept 29, 2005 10:43:14 GMT -5
Laxman,
A couple of thoughts. First, while I agree that we are to be good representatives of our faith that is not the PRIMARY objective of playing football. The main objective is to win, that is why we keep score.
Second, in order to be the right kind of representative of our faith and our school we have to gain some kind of respect, or who is going to listen to what we have to say, or notice how we live. I have a question for you. Would you not listen more intently to a person who has just given 100% of him/herself on the atheletic field and provided you as an opponent with one of the biggest challenges of you atheletic career, as opposed to a person you pushed all over the field all day and gained no respect for athletically? We are told to run the good race not be laggers. As The Rock used to say "Go out there and knock their heads off so when you share your faith with them they will have reason to listen to you. No one respects a bunch of losers." While our boys and coaches are not losers as human beings, we are definitely outmatched on the field. Another person I respect greatly has a saying that goes, "everything rises and falls on leadership." I know where I work I am responsible for 70+ people. When they do not perform well, who does my boss come and see? Your right, me!! While I am not for making a change during the season, I am definitely for making a change immediately afterwards.
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Post by Sly Fox on Sept 29, 2005 13:03:01 GMT -5
This is a great discussion. I think its cool we can weigh the pros and cons of this difficult situation in a civil and intelligent fashion. I feel everybody has valid arguments and even though there is a disparity in viewpoints we can all make our points in a classy fashion.
For any of you newbies to the board, this is not the first time Karcher has come under fire here. Back when the board was still in its infancy there were similar discussions a year ago. And when Karcher was given his extension there was an even stronger uproar.
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Post by Stevev on Sept 29, 2005 13:08:25 GMT -5
Great points! I think that the football team is poor representatives of Liberty University. There performance on the field is in no way representative of a Christian school and what they stand for. There is nothing Christian about it at all and absolutely no respect should be given to them. As far as the leadership thing is concerned Karcher is ultimately responcible for all this mess and should be willing to face the consequences whatever they may be.
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Post by PAmedic on Sept 29, 2005 14:58:16 GMT -5
Once again, FLAMESHAW put it succintly, far better than I would have been able- we should be the best in everything we do.
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Post by ATrain on Sept 29, 2005 15:10:07 GMT -5
Last year's football team went 6-5 with a senior led squad and a recruiting class recruited by Karcher...if 6-5 is considered "good" with what we had, then I fear that LU is going to settle for mediocrity, which is not what God calls us to be...God calls us to be the best, the standard...and we've gone from poor to mediocre to poor again. NOT ACCEPTABLE.
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Post by eddantes on Sept 29, 2005 15:20:31 GMT -5
"As The Rock used to say "Go out there and knock their heads off so when you share your faith with them they will have reason to listen to you. No one respects a bunch of losers." "
My, how the program is fallen to:
“I’m not sure I know how to describe that game,” Liberty coach Ken Karcher said. “We didn’t stop anybody on defense. They didn’t punt one time. And we didn’t score a point. So I’d say it was obviously not a good football game.”
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Post by thelaxman on Sept 29, 2005 22:55:56 GMT -5
Gentlemen:
I can appreciate your opinions and in some cases I agree. But God does not care if we have a winning Football team or a losing one. Our testimony is based on how we handle ourself on the field and on the sideline and that is what non Christians look at, not whether we are beating the crap out of our opponents.
Now I believe in promoting winning of course over losing but testimony for Christ is number 1 and that can happen after a loss with dignity and Class or after a win with good sportsmanship toward the Team we beat.
Coach Karcher and his Staff are Human and so is the Football Team which is made up of College age young Men between 18-22 and most of all they are Human too. You guys forget these are young Men in their development stage in their Life. Some of these young Men are not mature enough for all your criticism. So be careful about how negative your are about their Team and their Coach. That also falls under our Testimony for Christ.
If you ever Coach a College team of young Men between 18-22 you would understand immediately what I'm talking about.
I'm done with this thread for now. I really wish you Guys the best and I know you all mean well but let's be careful about what we say about LU Football in the middle of the season. Let's try and be respectful to the staff that works hard so at least we have a Team to watch. This team needs our support right now not our criticisms.
For the last time if you feel Karcher should go let's get the Alumni together and petition the AD right after the season and see if some changes can be made for the 2006 season.
God Bless,
The Laxman
P.S. OK, enough of this I'm going to enjoy watching the Sun come up over Sandia Mountain this Morning.
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Post by Sly Fox on Sept 30, 2005 9:21:11 GMT -5
laxman -- I agree wholeheartedly with the premise of your response. That is why I try to go out of my way to discourage overly harsh criticism of the athletes. Not that they should get a free pass for their performance, but they are just kids after all. Now administrators & staff are all ghrown up and responsible for the execution of their responsibilities. As long as the attacks don't become personal in nature, I think they are open game.
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Post by jimflamesfan on Sept 30, 2005 19:16:03 GMT -5
Talking about the football testimony.
The one thing I don't understand is why they didn't have a prayer after the W&M game. I mean you would think that you would pray win or lose. I guess the feeling was after getting slaughtered , it would be an insult??
But I like the way the girls basketball team has done it...pray whether you win or lose.
I mean I understand the whole football team was probably demoralized after the game...I was just suprised they didn't pray...I guess that was the reason why. But I would be hoping we would pray win or lose...I don't think it is a good witness only to pray when things go well.
Again, I not trying to be critical...but since we were talking how we are represented in sports, I thought I'd mention it.
Again, I understand the frustration probably led to not praying...but I hope we pray regardless from this point on.
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Post by lufbfan3 on Sept 30, 2005 19:56:33 GMT -5
I wondered about that too. It doesn't make sense--we've gotten slaughtered before, but the prayer was always there. I don't get it.
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dale
New Member
Posts: 40
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Post by dale on Oct 1, 2005 13:32:59 GMT -5
I agree with laxman above. Its not just winning and losing but how you conduct yourself. There are people who can't handle adversity and there are people who cannot handle success. As a Christian you should be able to handle either. Also, recruiting to LU has unique challenges and the head coach has to figure out how to do that effectively. As for the success of other sports, none of them require so many good athletes to compete. If you have have 11 good basketball players you can have a good team with depth but with 11 football players you don't even have half a team. I do respect the challenges Karcher faces in recruiting but part of being a good fit for the job is to find a way to make it work.
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Post by GREG on Oct 3, 2005 10:12:27 GMT -5
I sent an email to Bob Good and I was surprised at his response once I read it and the response was excellent.
Mr. Good said in the email that you can join the Flames Club and desinagte what sport you want your money to go to. You can also make a donation to the general scholarsiph fund or the Admin Unrestriced (used where need most in the Athletic Dept.
I you want to receive a copy of the email that was sent to me please forward your email address to GSKSOCCER@MSN.COM
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Post by eddantes on Oct 3, 2005 10:25:54 GMT -5
There are people who can't handle adversity and there are people who cannot handle success. As a Christian you should be able to handle either. Well, we've had enough of handling adversity... Can we try to handle success once in a while?
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Post by Stevev on Oct 3, 2005 15:27:39 GMT -5
I got my letter back from Mr. Good based on what I sent him last week. He agreed with most of what I had to say regarding the football team's performance and conference issues. One thing that I did not agree with was his comment about LU having poor athletic facilities. As of right now I would have to say that LU has nice facilities. We might not have what UVA or Virginia Tech has but colleges that I have visited that play similiar competition such as Delaware, Villanova, Hofstra, JMU, W & M , Delaware State, VMI, Chattanooga, Lehigh, Towson, George Mason, UMBC, and others. I would say that LU's athletic facilities are definately on par with all of them and then some. There may be need for improvements in some area's but overall I don't think that it is a problem or could be used as a legitimate excuse for a poor football team. Also the lack of athletic funding was mentioned but I would think that with the growth of LU they would allocate more money to athletics. Maybe they are holding back and trying to let the Flames Club membership increase to take care of the shortfall. I really don't know. I would appreciate some help on these issues.
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Post by lufbfan3 on Oct 3, 2005 15:51:55 GMT -5
I would say Chattanooga's got a better facility. They are where the national championship for I-AA is held (if I remember correctly) and with the exception of their natural grass field (it was HORRIBLE when we played--it looked like a practice soccer field)--they have a huge box seating section, and they have abundant stadium seating (UT-C holds 20,668 people) gomocs.com/article.asp?articleid=2465. I think we can hold 12,000 currently. I haven't actually attended the other schools-but I think Lehigh's got a decent sized stadium as well. I'd say our away locker room (have you seen it? it's like a large equipment closet) and the fact that we aren't anywhere close to finishing the football building are the only two reasons that I can think of for our facilities being "under par". (Once that building is completed, we will have the football building as well as a decent away locker room). I don't think it's an excuse for a poor team--our field is just fine, and that's all they need to play! As for the cash allocation--I'd say the fact that it's a losing program is why they aren't getting a TON of money poured in. The hockey building looks pretty close to finished and they started building it almost an entire year after the f-ball building began. They are a winning team if I remember correctly? Losing teams are never going to get a ton of cash. No millionare alumni are standing in line to put money into something that is seemingly doomed. They just got their new uniforms so I'd say they're getting some money. I would love to see some more funds coming in in the near future. Where would they add seating if they were going to? On top of the field house? Just wondering.
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Post by PAmedic on Oct 3, 2005 16:21:46 GMT -5
Lehigh's Goodman is beautiful. What else would you expect from an engineering school though? (until a few years back and the change to "Mountainhawks" they were known as the "Engineers". But our Vines beats their Stabler Ctr hands down.
As far as seating expansion goes- my understanding was they could finish seating around behind the near endzone or go with a second, elevated section above the existing "bowl". But hey, that was 15 yrs ago- like everything else I remember. SLY/SCAR may know more.
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Post by Stevev on Oct 3, 2005 19:48:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the comments the both of you. Some good points were brought up. Right now it is hard to think about increasing the seating capacity of the stadium based on the attendence numbers I have been seeing lately. Need to get moving on the operations center. Need to have something like that to attract good recruits and maybe used as a tool to hopefully get a more qualified head coach. I thought that the visitors locker room issue was taken care of. They tore down the shed back behind the end zone and built a locker room next to the track/soccer field. Unless it was a temporary fix until the operations center is complete.
I don't know if any of you remember but back in the late 80's time period we fielded competitive teams without having a stadium of our own (We borrowed Lynchburg City Stadium). The field itself seemed to be overused by all the local high schools. The point I am making is I can't justify the excuse of poor facilities a legitimate reason why we can't field competitive teams.
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Post by Sly Fox on Oct 3, 2005 20:21:16 GMT -5
Our facilities currently are adequate and by the time the football operations center is completed we will be well above the average. That's not our issue.
Raising the talent & coaching levels are where we need to focus.
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