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Post by MDIVIVVY on Mar 7, 2005 21:26:16 GMT -5
Listen "Libertysportsfan." We like to deal in facts on the board. You deal in what, conjecture? Opinion fine, I can discuss opinion. Facts. Facts are good. Conjecture. No. What makes you different from anyone who just comes on this board and makes a statement like Karcher is bribing students to come here. Or, Falwell pays off the refs? Please tell me what is the difference. It would be different if you had at least built up some kind of rep. with us here on the board. Heck, I wouldn't blame the well established guys if they didn't believe me if I said something along the lines that is being discussed in this post. Telling you to shut up may have been going to far and I apologize. Please acknowledge that rumors can be harmful. You say, I don't spread rumors, but the truth. Then tell us the truth, the whole truth. What is there to be afraid of if it is the truth? If it be losing a job or a school or whatnot, is it worth keeping the truth hidden?
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Post by eddantes on Mar 7, 2005 21:50:54 GMT -5
About Carey Green, I think I should expand on my statements just so people don't think I want the guy's head on a stake.
It's clear that we're never going to win a first round game. I don't blame Coach Green for this, it's the Big South's fault. But... I think two things:
1) Might as well try something new 2) Let Green finish out his contract and then give him permission to seek a job elsewhere. His value to a larger, better (a men's team, or a higher profile women's) team is at its peak.
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Post by SCAR on Mar 7, 2005 22:35:20 GMT -5
Guys,
I too have been watching these posts go on for the past few days and can only say that there probably are people on this board with inside info and probably do know what they are talking about. However I am pretty close to this program (former player, coach, current TV announcer) and I have been around this program for almost 20 years and there has always been people who want to leave at times but that is just part of being in a division 1 program. These same things go on all over the country. I don't think there is a major problem going on in the program. I know David and Larry pretty well and I doubt very seriously if either is thinking of leaving but I could be wrong. I think Liberty will be competitive for years to come and that Stephon has done an exceptional job recruiting. There are some guys that need developing (Doug Stewart, Russell Monroe) but to me they are good players that need to be worked with. I am not expecting this apocalyptic occurrence to happen in the off season that some have predicted on this thread. I try to stay out of the inner workings of all that goes on up there but I did want to weigh in.
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Post by PAmedic on Mar 8, 2005 10:02:58 GMT -5
thanks for the thoughts SCAR, to everyone else: probably a good way to wrap up this thread- its going nowhere, and there's NO POINT in arguing over WHO knows WHAT and what MAY happen WHEN. * NEXT TOPIC PLEASE!*
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Post by FlamesFanatic5482 on Mar 9, 2005 0:27:07 GMT -5
Being new to this board it is great to see some deep discussion about Liberty University Athletics.
No one can dispute what Coach Dunton has done to improve our basketball program. Taking them from the worst team in NCAA D-I to the NCAA Tourney in 2 years. Also he has a feather in his cap with the recruiting he did for Larry Blair and David Dees.
But along with the positive comes the negative. Lets be honest none of our Coaches in our revenue sports have been involved with the student body. When you look at some of the greatest basketball programs in the country Coach K (Duke), Roy Williams (UNC), Jim Calhoun (UConn), and Jim Boeheim (Syracuse). Each and every one of those coaches have been active among the students of there respective university. Coach Dunton and Coach Karcher must give us a reason why to support there programs. The athletic department must also do a better job of marketing itself. This is ultimately what we need to do to change our athletics.
Is firing coach Dunton the ultimate solution to our problems no not at this point in time if anything Dunton deserves an extension for the job he has done here. Him and coach Bob Davis have done a fantastic job in rebuilding the basketball program. I do not appreciate Dunton's on court antics but as a coach he has performed his job better than anyone could have imagined.
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Post by HoldMyOwn on Mar 19, 2005 21:18:44 GMT -5
It's just like i said in the other message board...just a matter of a FEW years ago we were the WORST team in the nation and now you want him out??? It normally takes a FULL recruiting class before things can turn around yet he turned it around in just a few....In all actuality we shouldn't even start EXPECTING things until this year, when all his FR. recruits are now JR's, while a JUCO transfer is a "recruit" you cannot count them as the same because he did not have full access to help them develope...while I to dont agree with everything he does I still give respect when it's due, and i was tired of losing and being THE WORST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY and he changed that, and yall want his head on a silver platter....Come on now!!! Way to many Hater's with their own agenda's out there!!!!
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Post by Gerald on Jun 25, 2005 14:54:18 GMT -5
:)How "Inside" is "inside"? Dees has not gone to the ACC, Blair is right where he belongs, there is extremely strong support for Coach Dunton in the Liberty administration, Liberty has had three of the best years in their history, a talented coaching staff is in place, and there are great athletes ready to go for the 05-06 season. Here are some observations # 1 - somebody's "inside information" which was stated as if it were prophecy, has failed the test; (translation: somebody doesn't know what they're talking about) # 2 - If Liberty finsihes at or near the top this year, people ought to get off Coach's back; if Liberty doesn't finish high, then people have the American right to fire away (Translation: someone doesn't like Randy Dunton because of his sideline/coaching personality) - they probably don't know Randy Dunton, because he is a great guy who cares about his players # 3 If these things are being said under the current circumstances, what in the world was being said when we were last in the conference, last in the country, and close to last in fan excitment? Good Night - we're only one year removed from a 45 point championship win! Taking that philosophy, we'd probably want to fire all the Red Sox players & coaches if they fail to win the World Series this year. (Translation - There is zero logic in the "Dunton Needs To Be Out Discussion.) I'm trying not to use the word "stupid."
I'm new to this site. Don't know rules or procedures.
GM - a fan in California
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Post by Sly Fox on Jun 25, 2005 15:10:06 GMT -5
Gerald -- First off, welcome to the site. As for rules & procedures, it's pretty basic. We try to keep the discussion to the standards you would expect at LU. Otherwise, this is a conduit of free speech.
As for the alleged "insiders" earlier in this VERY old thread, I thin they took the title facetiously. There are some actual insiders ont his site which you will probably recognize from their writing. But most of us are just Flames alumni & fans who have found a place to get together and discuss something where there wasn't any outlet prior.
As for anyone calling for Dunton's head on a platter, I think you need to note the dates of the post. With expectations raised high coming off the championship season, we were getting pummeled game after game after escaping with a home overtime victory over a DIII school. Fristration was running pretty high. But obviously the conference schedule once again made all things good once again.
By the way, it'd be cool if you would go ahead and register on the site. We're always looking for more people who care about the program. It doesn't cost anything other than a couple of minutes to fill out a form. We're are fast closing in on 100 registered members of the site. That's pretty incredible considering the relatively short time we've been around.
Bottom line ... welcome to the board, Gerald.
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Post by Gerald on Jun 27, 2005 9:02:52 GMT -5
Dear Sly Fox,
Thanks for the reply. I have registered, but have not received my "activation number," so membership for me is in Limbo - to use an unscriptural term. I look forward to getting on the site, and perhaps addressing current items as opposed to the outdated one that I chose. The fact is, I couldn't resist weighing in on the Dunton Issue, because I find the mere mention of such a subject to be outrageous.
Thanks for the "welcome aboard."
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Post by Sly Fox on Jun 27, 2005 10:03:42 GMT -5
Its taken a few days for some of our recent new memers to get activated. Proboards just went through a complete overhaul about a month or so ago and some things are slow to get back online.
Bottom line, join the fray right away.
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Post by flamesfan710 on Jun 27, 2005 10:43:03 GMT -5
Call me naive if you want, but I like what Coach Dunton has done for this program. Yeah nearly losing to Shenandoah was pretty bad, and losing in the first round of the conference tournament last year was bad too, but these guys went 5-25 the year before I came (Fall of 2002 btw) so I will gladly stand behind Coach Dunton and hope he sticks around for a while.
And to all you "insiders", call me crazy but I want to know where your getting your information from. And don't go giving me any mess about it. If you are going to go and drag our current coach over the coals, I want to know where you're getting your information so I can find out for myself.
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Post by Gerald on Jun 27, 2005 19:10:03 GMT -5
:)Amen to Flamesfan 710!
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Post by PAmedic on Jun 27, 2005 21:49:28 GMT -5
Gerald, welcome to our little hole on the web; as usual- I'll add the caveat that (OBVIOUSLY) the gentleman from Houston is insane. Trust only the educated opinions of my esteemed collegues from PA, and you'll be fine here.
ff710: evidently several of our insiders work w/in the AD but may not be able to advertise that, and as far as others go- blood may be thicker than water if you get my drift.
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Post by Gerald on Jun 28, 2005 9:30:19 GMT -5
Dear PAmedic, I'm having a little trouble exegeting your post. Do you dislike Sly Fox, or was that friendly banter? I reviewed your writings on our subject, and you seem reasonable, but I'm not positive on where you stand on the "Dump Dunton" absurdity. The expression "blood is thicker than water" usually refers to family ties. So we assume (with all the jokes that go with breaking "assume" down to its component letters) that some insiders are speaking the truth, while others are holding to loyalty despite reality. What I know is this: Randy Dunton has won everywhere he has been, and when I say everywhere, I mean everywhere, and that includes LU. The man can coach! He asks people to play hard, and he works hard. He's fair, but he's not a guy who is going to get into a bunch of psycho-babble, or who is going to spend a lot time wondering why a guy won't show up to practice ready to work. That goes for everyone he works with, adult or youth, male or female. He appreciates people who "show up or shut up" if you will. Of course, these are my observations, and I am not his official biographer. This may not be the way he sees himself. Believe this: as long as Randy is with Liberty, they will compete for the Big South on a yearly basis, and win it frequently - Winthrop notwithstanding.
Thanks, and God Bless.
Gerald
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Post by Gerald on Jun 28, 2005 9:33:26 GMT -5
8-)Dear PAmedic, I'm having a little trouble exegeting your post. Do you dislike Sly Fox, or was that friendly banter? I reviewed your writings on our subject, and you seem reasonable, but I'm not positive on where you stand on the "Dump Dunton" absurdity. The expression "blood is thicker than water" usually refers to family ties. So we assume (with all the jokes that go with breaking "assume" down to its component letters) that some insiders are speaking the truth, while others are holding to loyalty despite reality. What I know is this: Randy Dunton has won everywhere he has been, and when I say everywhere, I mean everywhere, and that includes LU. The man can coach! He asks people to play hard, and he works hard. He's fair, but he's not a guy who is going to get into a bunch of psycho-babble, or who is going to spend a lot time wondering why a guy won't show up to practice ready to work. That goes for everyone he works with, adult or youth, male or female. He appreciates people who "show up or shut up" if you will. Of course, these are my observations, and I am not his official biographer. This may not be the way he sees himself. Believe this: as long as Randy is with Liberty, they will compete for the Big South on a yearly basis, and win it frequently - Winthrop notwithstanding.
Thanks, and God Bless.
Gerald
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Post by PAmedic on Jun 28, 2005 9:39:32 GMT -5
I'm having trouble exegating the word exagating.
I'm just a paramedic man, not a dr. (Star Trek fan as well. obviously)
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Post by PAmedic on Jun 28, 2005 9:47:20 GMT -5
Anyway Gerald- sarcasm doesn't translate well in print- SLY is the man and I just like talkin smack w/ him. (plus he knows I'm right)
and you're right on w/ the blood-water thing. I was hypothetically referring to some our potential insiders but I'll leave it at that.
about Dunton- don't know the man and haven't seen a B-ball game since '89 at Liberty Gym when we were HORRENDOUS. DAILY. so I can't really make a legitimate judgement about him.
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Post by HarrisburgFlame on Jun 28, 2005 10:01:37 GMT -5
If Dunton was to leave - who out there is better that we could get to LU? I for one think we need to give Randy a chance to turn things around. More than 3 or 4 years. Coaching changes aren't always the answer.
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Post by PAmedic on Jun 28, 2005 10:03:19 GMT -5
I'd go as far to say they Rarely are- transitions take a while. (like the Phils, Sixers and Eagles thru most of the 80's)
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Post by Gerald on Jun 28, 2005 10:15:57 GMT -5
;DAll Right PAmedic - "Exegesis" is "the exposition, critical analysis, or interpretation of a word, literary passage, etc., especially of the Bible." I'm glad to hear that you and Sly are cool, and I am glad to get a bit more insight from you on "the insiders."
"89" is a long time ago! I was fortunate to be there for the Big South Championship in "04" and it was an UNBELIEVABLE moment in time. Those things basically CANNOT be done, but sometimes they happen. Let's just say that this is what Randy Dunton can accomplish - meaning things that seemed impossible two or three years before become reality. Just talking to you, I think you would love Coach - maybe you can meet him some day. I hear that his staff will be finalized very soon (there have been some changes, as I'm sure you realize) and the word is that there are some quality people coming on board who bring some "big conference" expertise with them. We'll see - but I'm excited.
Hey, PA isn't that far from Liberty. Why don't you and me and Sly try to get there for the Big South?
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Post by Gerald on Jun 28, 2005 10:20:49 GMT -5
Hello HarrisburgFlame- If going from last in the world to winning the Big South by 45 points isn't a turnaround, then what is? "Turnaround" is not the question - that's history. The question now is - "How many championships in the next ten years?" (if the LORD does not return first).
Thanks,
Gerald
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Post by flamesfan710 on Jun 28, 2005 12:22:17 GMT -5
;DAll Right PAmedic - "Exegesis" is "the exposition, critical analysis, or interpretation of a word, literary passage, etc., especially of the Bible." I'm glad to hear that you and Sly are cool, and I am glad to get a bit more insight from you on "the insiders." "89" is a long time ago! I was fortunate to be there for the Big South Championship in "04" and it was an UNBELIEVABLE moment in time. Those things basically CANNOT be done, but sometimes they happen. Let's just say that this is what Randy Dunton can accomplish - meaning things that seemed impossible two or three years before become reality. Just talking to you, I think you would love Coach - maybe you can meet him some day. I hear that his staff will be finalized very soon (there have been some changes, as I'm sure you realize) and the word is that there are some quality people coming on board who bring some "big conference" expertise with them. We'll see - but I'm excited. Hey, PA isn't that far from Liberty. Why don't you and me and Sly try to get there for the Big South? I couldn't be there for the BSC championship game in 04 (was at an indoor drumline competition ) but I watched the tape of it a few weeks back and I gotta say that my heart still swells with pride watching that game...Coach Dunton has done an unbelievable job getting our boys to where they are at and I am sure that there are only more great things to come...even if he only wins one or two more championships before I graduate...that moment when the clock hit all 0s and the students stormed the floor last year... it will rank righ tup there with the end of the VMI game in 03 for me.
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Post by LUconn on Jun 28, 2005 12:54:18 GMT -5
1 or 2 before you graduate? That's a tall drink of water. You've got to be at least a sophmore which gives him 2 years to do that. With Winthrop taking it easily this year and the last few years of unproven recruits, I don't think we'll be back there for a few years. Maybe we'll get another JUCO Gabe Martin and Russel Monroe (my hero) will start and go on a double-double rampage. This is what you missed by the way, you can veiw it under my name any time you like though:
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Post by Realist on Jun 28, 2005 13:10:12 GMT -5
I think the jury is still out on Dunton. He is obviously an improvement over what was going on before him. I think this year will actually be a good indicator of how good of a coach he really is. His BSC championship year came in a year where the league was really down and WU was down to basically 6 healthy players, and Dees and Blair by themselves could finish .500 in conference play last year. He's done a good job recruiting, but I still question how good of in-game coach he is. I think if he does well this year (4th or better finish) you can make a solid case that he's a very quality coach.
Those calling for his head are absurd though, this guy easily deserves at least a few years to see if he can do it again.
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Post by Gerald on Jun 28, 2005 13:42:00 GMT -5
:)OK, Realist. 4th or better is very gracious. We'll be there! He is a "very quality coach" and that's an understatement, and your burden of proof will be ansered this year, and then, there'll be another "Dunton Man" in the camp.
God bless, and thanks.
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Post by LUconn on Jun 28, 2005 13:45:15 GMT -5
He's not in the camp. He's in with that loyal greaseball Marshall camp.
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Post by Gerald on Jun 28, 2005 16:32:59 GMT -5
Hello LUconn - What's a senior member? And yes, Gabe did dunk in their face! (and in a lot of faces) One of the amazing things about Gabe is his brute strength. So the realist is a "Marshall Man?" I guess it's a free country, but patriotism and Liberty University seem to match quite nicely to me.
I'm still waiting for my activation code so I can be the league's oldest rookie member.
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Post by Sly Fox on Jun 28, 2005 17:01:27 GMT -5
Gerald -- LUconn is referring to the fact that we have a number of regular posters on this board from rival schools (Realist is a Winthrop dude). So you can take what he says with that frame of mind.
I don't think there really are too many who frequent this board who are still ready to dump Dunton. Once again, most of the earlier rantings were strictly kneejerk frustration.
As for who would be the next coach, we'll save that discussion for a later day. ;D
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Post by ATrain on Jun 29, 2005 8:58:16 GMT -5
Yes-I remember storming the court actually a few seconds before it hit zero. At the 10 second mark-Danny Gathings begins gets the ball (9) dribbles a little ways (8) back into High Point's part of the court (7) he stops dribbling (6) holds the ball in one hand and puts a hand on his (5) hip and (4) the students start rushing (3) the flood's unstoppable (2) I'm on the court now (1) just nearly there (0) WE WIN!!! BIG SOUTH CHAMPIONS!!! WE'RE GONNA DANCE.
Remembering that game still brings tears to my eyes. Yeah, Gabe Martin did get dunked on, but we reminded the kitties of the score and never let them forget who was winning that day (*We Own High Point* *Up by 30* *Up by 40* *Double your scorre*-clap clap clap clap clap). Unforgettable, a great moment of my freshman year (I'm a junior this fall).
I would also like to see us win another championship next year, but with Coastal finally gettin serious about men's BBall and Winthrop returning to the top, it'll be tough. GO LUP
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Post by thesportscritic on Jun 29, 2005 9:15:06 GMT -5
Yes-I remember storming the court actually a few seconds before it hit zero. At the 10 second mark-Danny Gathings begins gets the ball (9) dribbles a little ways (8) back into High Point's part of the court (7) he stops dribbling (6) holds the ball in one hand and puts a hand on his (5) hip and (4) the students start rushing (3) the flood's unstoppable (2) I'm on the court now (1) just nearly there (0) WE WIN!!! BIG SOUTH CHAMPIONS!!! WE'RE GONNA DANCE. Remembering that game still brings tears to my eyes. Yeah, Gabe Martin did get dunked on, but we reminded the kitties of the score and never let them forget who was winning that day (*We Own High Point* *Up by 30* *Up by 40* *Double your scorre*-clap clap clap clap clap). Unforgettable, a great moment of my freshman year (I'm a junior this fall). I would also like to see us win another championship next year, but with Coastal finally gettin serious about men's BBall and Winthrop returning to the top, it'll be tough. GO LUP That was an awesome game. High Point fans tried to taunt us but we were the ones that beat them bad. They have never beaten us in the Vines Center since Dunton has been here. Hey Atrain did you remember High Point fans cussing on a bad call? And you remember Chris Meeks undercuting Gabe Martin and it looked like Martin was going to get him?
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